How can I upgrade?

  • This thread is somewhat repeat of last thread but my scope has been changed since.

    Instead of resetting, I just want upgrade the system.

    The current system is KR10 R1100 with KRC4 compact.

    The software version of KRC4 is V.8.3.9 with unknown Work Visual version.

    The windows program OS is Windows Embedded (Windows 98?)


    1. I'd like to Upgrade to Windows 7 or 10.

    2. I'd like to upgrade to KRC4 Version 8.6+ (current version)

    3. I'd like to use Workvisual version 6 or newer.


    I see that there is upgrading and updating service offer by KUKA, but price is "NOT" affordable.

    I'm willing to invest my long hours to update/upgrade myself if possible.

    I've attached some photos for version verification purpose.


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  • i have done that several times for different clients and service cost to do the upgrade is a minor (smallest) part of the overall cost. major cost is the licenses for different software. that includes operating systems on the KRC, KSS, each tech package etc.


    8.6 runs on a newer Windows and new Windows license alone is about $1k (USD).


    and KSS is some 5x that.


    and you still have tech options etc.


    for a basic robot with no or only few tech options upgrade can quickly snowball over $10k. service cost will add to that but it is likely only a small fraction (some 10% or so) of the previous figure.

    so depending what you have and how many robots you have may allow for some discounts but unless you have a lot of them, i would not hold my breath. the only time license cost may be waved is if system is new and somehow fails to perform some key function such that there is no workaround but to use software that needs new licenses.


    upgrade is not just matter or dumping new image and installing tech package...

    that may work in few case but just because it seem to work it does not means it is right, you can encounter various problems later on.


    proper work includes checking hardware compatibility (motherboard or MCC version) and if ok select matching software versions for all options, then do a complete backup, firmware upgrade to the latest stand for all hardware (KPP,KSP,RDC,CCU etc.), creating new WoV project, transfer of settings (tools, baes, loads, aux loads, workspaces, EKI/RSI/UserTech...), converting all programs etc.


    this can be small or big job depending on number and type of programs and tech options.


    in the past firmware upgrade requires special software on KUKA bootable stick. these days things are becoming simpler as newer KSS have more functions. so now one can do this from the KSS menu as well.

    1) read pinned topic: READ FIRST...

    2) if you have an issue with robot, post question in the correct forum section... do NOT contact me directly

    3) read 1 and 2

  • I think the main costs are alle the necessary new licenses, mainly KSS 8.6 and Kuka Windows Embedded, you need to buy from KUKA and this is something that can not be avoided. Everything else would be software piracy and therfore illegal. If you can upgrade to 8.6 (which is running on windows side a Windows 10 version) depends on the mainboard version (MCC 20, 30 , ...) you have. I think these dependencies have been posted some time ago in this forum but I did not search for it now. But as always asking KUKA would probably also reveal this.


    Oops panic beat me to it.


    Fubini

  • and yeah,

    KSS 8.2 was using XP

    KSS 8.3 is using Win7 (that is Windows7 Embedded Standard 32-bit)

    higher versions use Win10 etc.

    1) read pinned topic: READ FIRST...

    2) if you have an issue with robot, post question in the correct forum section... do NOT contact me directly

    3) read 1 and 2

  • Kuka nordic had some campaign a while ago offering upgrades at a discount. I'm not at liberty to disclose the prices but i recieved the cost for a upgrading a 8.3 to a 8.6 (without asking for it) for in my opinion a "decent" but not hefty amount.


    Ask kuka and you will get an offer to consider at least.


    I do not know of any restrictions in using wv 6 with a kss 8.3 robot. One thing i know for sure if you want to work using the programming&diagnosis tab in workvisual and not deploy a complete project everytime you change something kss 8.3.14 is reuired at a minimum. Or you will get the attached popup. If this is what you are after you could ask for a kss update within the same major version, to my understanding at no charge as long as you do the install yourself.

  • Thank you, HES.

    "kss update"?

    Yes, in short run, this is major dilimma I face now.

    Version 8.3.9 can't view/edit programming.

    I tried WV 3.0 and 4.0 but still no. Same message, I need 8.3.14 or at least 8.5.

    Where do I get this updates? Do I need to request thru KUKA or is there a way to download

    off from a site?

  • you need to contact KUKA and supply your robot info, preferably with KRCDiag - it will let them know if any hardware was added or replaced, what the firmware stand is, list of any tech options added later (after robot sale), drive configuration (if changed) and programs to be converted.

    then they can supply quote. you can always ask for any specials or discount options... asking does not hurt.


    but... you may also consider staying with current licenses just have all the software updated to latest product version covered by those licenses. for example go from KSS8.3.9 to KSS8.3.40 or whatever the latest 8.3 release is... and this will add several improvements, like support for MultiSubmit (which is a free option) and your WoV will not complain any more since the version will be above 8.3.14

    1) read pinned topic: READ FIRST...

    2) if you have an issue with robot, post question in the correct forum section... do NOT contact me directly

    3) read 1 and 2

  • That looks like it could be windows 7 embedded already. That being said, you can upgrade to Windows IoT. That system probably couldn't support a full windows 10 install and running software constantly so IoT would be the best bet. I also don't know the software support for IoT so that's another variable.

  • That looks like it could be windows 7 embedded already.


    yes, KSS8.3 runs on Win7e


    That being said, you can upgrade to Windows IoT.

    that is just name change... Microsoft rebranded "Windows Embedded" to "Windows IoT" starting with the release of embedded editions of Windows 10 so, IoT is binary identical to their respective embedded variant.


    But... both windows and vxworks versions used on KRC are customized and optimized for KSS needs. this is not something that KUKA advertises or shares details of.


    How practical is for someone to tinker with this to get them to work together smoothly and efficiently? if so what criteria is to be used as indication that change is sufficient and correct? Who should be asked for support - both to get it work and after it is supposedly working? You think KUKA will be ok with that?


    btw, even if one gets Windows license elsewhere and saves 70-80% on that license, that is only a small potato. One still needs to get new KSS and all tech options and for those there is no substitute to get cost down.

    1) read pinned topic: READ FIRST...

    2) if you have an issue with robot, post question in the correct forum section... do NOT contact me directly

    3) read 1 and 2

  • regarding your post #6


    KSS 8.3.9 is a very old version and should/could be updated !?)

    (there is one saying: never change a running system - remember that!)

    But:

    If everything is working proberly -> why would you want to upgrade?


    If there are any problems check with kuka and you will get a free update (NOT upgrade)

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