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Seeking Advice: Robotics Art Project - $25 Reward

  • Robo_Bird
  • September 11, 2020 at 12:17 AM
  • Thread is Unresolved
  • Robo_Bird
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    • September 11, 2020 at 12:17 AM
    • #1

    Seeking Advice on Robotic Art Project: $25 Reward

    I am making a fairly simple robotic art project and would love advice on the build. I will send a check for $25 to whoever gives the most simple, workable guidelines to help me!

    The idea is a randomly moving artwork on 4 wheels, rolling on a flat concrete floor indoors, at fairly slow speed within a gallery.

    I probably need to run it off a car battery and will use 4 wheels that will run off some programing. The programming will be intended to run it continuously, moving at random distances and directions. I will have to stop it from hitting walls and other objects with sensors etc. The size is about 8 feet long by 4 feet wide and 3 feet high and will weight about 400 pounds. It is not top heavy, so no worries about stability.

    What is the simplist, most elegant way to carry this out?

    Please offer advice on wheels, wheel hardware and programming platform details. Thank you to the amazing community here for your feedback!

    Robo Bird

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  • Erik Olsen
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    • September 11, 2020 at 1:49 AM
    • #2

    My primary concern with this would be moving a 400 lb budget "robot" around a gallery full of people. Sounds like a lawsuit waiting to happen.

  • Lemster68
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    • September 11, 2020 at 2:40 PM
    • #3
    Quote from Erik Olsen

    My primary concern with this would be moving a 400 lb budget "robot" around a gallery full of people. Sounds like a lawsuit waiting to happen.

    I agree. Instead of reinventing the wheel, so to speak, start looking at AGV's and talking to some of the manufacturers of those. These types of vehicles are used in many plants and have the safety available to not run us over or crash into things. You might require them to do some custom programming for your purpose, but I expect you could find a place to meet your needs.

  • Erik Olsen
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    • September 11, 2020 at 3:46 PM
    • #4
    Quote from Lemster68

    I agree. Instead of reinventing the wheel, so to speak, start looking at AGV's and talking to some of the manufacturers of those. These types of vehicles are used in many plants and have the safety available to not run us over or crash into things. You might require them to do some custom programming for your purpose, but I expect you could find a place to meet your needs.

    I would hazard a guess that somebody offering 25 bucks for advice on a car battery powered robot doesn't have pockets deep enough for a conventional AGV. However, if Robo Bird could lighten up his installation to say 60lbs, he could put it on a base of 3 or 4 iRobot Roombas. Cheap, safe, and definitely gonna move in random directions. Plus, i'm sure you could turn it into some brave commentary on consumerism or the ethics of roomba slaves.

  • HawkME
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    • September 11, 2020 at 6:00 PM
    • #5

    can you get roombas to move in sync together?

  • Erik Olsen
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    • September 11, 2020 at 6:05 PM
    • #6
    Quote from HawkME

    can you get roombas to move in sync together?

    Probably not. Hence:

    Quote from Erik Olsen

    definitely gonna move in random directions

  • panic mode
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    • September 11, 2020 at 6:10 PM
    • #7

    AGV is simplest and most elegant way to do this

    1) read pinned topic: READ FIRST...

    2) if you have an issue with robot, post question in the correct forum section... do NOT contact me directly

    3) read 1 and 2

  • Riccardo Castiglia
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    • September 13, 2020 at 10:45 AM
    • #8

    itwould have to move slowly and avoid people, this is the hard part probably the sensors and havong reliable ones will trow you off budget even if as last resort you use a string

  • Robo_Bird
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    • September 18, 2020 at 8:22 PM
    • #9

    I was hoping to address the concerns over feasibility in the original post by saying it's not top heavy... This will be in a performance/gallery setting.

    More details - There will be no people in the area of the artwork, and like I said in the original post, it's not top heavy at all... it will be a separate area viewed as a performance, and 400 lbs is the projected weight of the entire thing - wheels, platform, battery and art, the art will be in its dimensions, about 4 ft x 4 ft wide x 2.5 ft tall.

    The artwork will be moving at a very slow speed. Id like it to change directions, perhaps every minute or so, after traversing maybe 5 to 8 ft over the span of a minute. The space is empty - no "crashing into stuff"

    I didn't say anything in the original post anything about budget restrictions, so Im not sure why that keeps coming up. If I need to put a price figure on this, Id prefer to keep it in the $1,000 budget range, but Im open to all options.

    Is anyone open to giving advice on a build?

    Much appreciation to moderators Lemster and 'panic mode' who have given me a start to researching the nature of AGV's, although Id love to look into a more DIY workflow too.

    Edited 3 times, last by Robo_Bird (September 18, 2020 at 8:34 PM).

  • panic mode
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    • September 18, 2020 at 8:59 PM
    • Best Answer
    • #10

    well, you have been warned that this is subject on safety. with that i will leave it to you to worry about safety and we can move on to feasibility and possible implementation. i would propose using some low cost controller, 12V car battery couple of relays, some geared motors and of course few sensors to avoid running into things.

    geared motors are needed to get correct (reduced) speed and higher torque needed to move such heavy payload. with sufficiently high gear ratio even small motor can be used. i am thinking two motors would be enough and controlling when and how long they are powered will give you sufficiently random path pattern. there are different ways to go about this. for unit that mostly moves in one direction, one motor can be used for propulsion and other for steering (like in a regular car). for unit that moves at random, in both directions and can turn on a dime, it is better to put both motors on opposite wheels that are parallel to each other, for example one on left, one on right side. then you place one caster in front and one in the back and you are golden.

    note that automotive motors are high current so you would need pair of inverting relays (SPDT) for each motor. so for two motors you would need 4 relays and therefore 4 outputs from the the controller. for example windhield wiper motors are very powerful and already have pretty substantial gearbox.

    this is how each of motors would be wired:

    i would also put diodes (a bridge rectifier really) to as a suppressor since every time you turn off one of motor, they would produce high voltage spike. this will not only erode relay contacts prematurely (which you may not care about if project is short life) but more importantly this could give you nasty jolts and wreak havoc on the controller. for that reason it would be a good idea to keep controller powered from separate battery (few AA cells for example).

    as a controller you can use pretty much anything, smart relay (if it can be powered by 12V), some PLC (plenty of knockoffs for mitsubishi FX series), or Arduino etc. anything really would be fine.

    the last item is sensors to detect obstacles. really there are two options - ultrasound or optical sensors, since the range you want is of 0.5-1m is too long for contact switch or inductive type. Amazon and hobby sites have tons of them. if using Arduino or whatever microcontroller (but not PLC), cheap sensors are something like this: ($2 a piece or so):

    btw, regardless what you think or feel is needed (even with no humans present) i would consider at the very least adding a pullcord around the perimeter of the unit, and wire it to a simple 1-channel EStop circuit. (needs one more relay).

    btw, Arduino or any microcontroller will not be able to drive relay coils directly and high current relays to control motor would need driver logic. cheap solution is to simply use additional intermediate weaker relays that already have built in drivers. they interface to Arduion etc easily and will have no problem driving the bigger relays.

    ELEGOO 4 Channel DC 5V Relay Module with Optocoupler for Arduino UNO R3 MEGA 2560 1280 DSP ARM PIC AVR STM32 Raspberry Pi

    here are typical automotive relays for high current that can easily control those motors

    logic can be simple, drum sequencer or lookup table driven state machine.

    here is an example wiring for high current section (motor circuit)

    1) read pinned topic: READ FIRST...

    2) if you have an issue with robot, post question in the correct forum section... do NOT contact me directly

    3) read 1 and 2

  • Robo_Bird
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    • September 18, 2020 at 9:26 PM
    • #11

    Your kind direction on this is very much appreciated, can I support your endeavors through a donation? I know it took time to work up this guidance.

    Appreciating your help to bring us forward into creating this very cool art gallery installation.

  • panic mode
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    • September 18, 2020 at 9:28 PM
    • #12

    absolutely... money is always welcome. :winking_face:

    1) read pinned topic: READ FIRST...

    2) if you have an issue with robot, post question in the correct forum section... do NOT contact me directly

    3) read 1 and 2

  • Robo_Bird
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    • September 18, 2020 at 9:41 PM
    • #13

    One more thought... Would you have a suggestion on the specs of the motor driven wheels, and the best source to procure?

    Interested also in best sources on drum sequencer, and automotive relays

  • panic mode
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    • September 18, 2020 at 10:40 PM
    • #14

    that would require knowing more details about actual intended use, for example run times (how many hours a day, type of floor and traction (carpeted or not, smooth and slippery or not, easily stained by tire or not, does it need to be silent or not etc.)

    i agree that load is significant so looking for wheels that already have geared motor may be limiting so some shopping around would be needed.

    given the scale of the project, i would probably not spend too much time on integrated unit and try to pick some wheels with sufficient capacity, perhaps something like Steelex casters on Amazon (they look rugged and low cost). use two fixed and two swivel casters. then modify foxed ones so they can be driven by a motor. that way one can know rated capacity and try to move it by hand to get better idea of speed/torque requirement (carpet means higher friction), duty cycle etc before decoding what motor to use.

    1) read pinned topic: READ FIRST...

    2) if you have an issue with robot, post question in the correct forum section... do NOT contact me directly

    3) read 1 and 2

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