1. Home
    1. Dashboard
    2. Search
  2. Forum
    1. Unresolved Threads
    2. Members
      1. Recent Activities
      2. Users Online
      3. Team Members
      4. Search Members
      5. Trophys
  3. Articles
  4. Blog
  5. Videos
  6. Jobs
  7. Shop
    1. Orders
  • Login or register
  • Search
This Thread
  • Everywhere
  • This Thread
  • This Forum
  • Articles
  • Pages
  • Forum
  • Blog Articles
  • Products
  • More Options
  1. Robotforum - Support and discussion community for industrial robots and cobots
  2. Forum
  3. Industrial Robot Support and Discussion Center
  4. KUKA Robot Forum
Your browser does not support videos RoboDK Software for simulation and programming
Visit our Mainsponsor
IRBCAM
Robotics Channel
Robotics Training
Advertise in robotics
Sponsored Ads

Profinet loosing the connection with Robot during backup from workvisual

  • tarun89engg
  • August 3, 2018 at 10:43 AM
  • Thread is Resolved
  • tarun89engg
    Reactions Received
    1
    Trophies
    4
    Posts
    32
    • August 3, 2018 at 10:43 AM
    • #1

    Hello guys,

    I would like to know what is the use of this update time??

    can anyone elaborate how it affect the system if i change this update time from 1ms to 4 ms or 8 ms.

    We have different palnt area and each plant area has 7-8 robot, we have problem during backup from workvisual.

    when we try to make a backup from workvisual than some of the moudle (Like Scalance switch in Glue controller OR welding controller module) loose the connection with the Robot.

    Profinet loose its connection with robotcontroller during the backup (Not every moudle)

    I have changed on some robot this update time from 2ms to 4ms and now there is No any problem during backup from workvisual.

    Before I change to whole plant i would like to know how it will affect on the system.

    I am working with

    KRC 4
    KR c Version 8.2.28

    Thanks for any info.


  • Online
    panic mode
    Reactions Received
    1,278
    Trophies
    11
    Posts
    13,079
    • August 3, 2018 at 3:05 PM
    • #2

    your issue is with ProfiNet and you don't even mention installed version.... ???


    please read READ FIRST

    1) read pinned topic: READ FIRST...

    2) if you have an issue with robot, post question in the correct forum section... do NOT contact me directly

    3) read 1 and 2

  • tarun89engg
    Reactions Received
    1
    Trophies
    4
    Posts
    32
    • August 3, 2018 at 9:29 PM
    • #3

    Hello Panic

    Profinet KRC-Nexxt=2.2.10


    if you need some another info than let me know.

    Edited once, last by tarun89engg (August 3, 2018 at 9:33 PM).

  • Online
    SkyeFire
    Reactions Received
    1,051
    Trophies
    12
    Posts
    9,423
    • August 3, 2018 at 11:07 PM
    • #4

    Only time I've seen ProfiNet drop out due to other non-realtime network traffic was when the network switches were badly configured, and didn't keep low-priority and high-priority traffic separate.

  • Online
    panic mode
    Reactions Received
    1,278
    Trophies
    11
    Posts
    13,079
    • August 3, 2018 at 11:56 PM
    • #5

    Why is the RPI set to 1ms? Interpolation time is 12ms. I dont have manual to check limitations but if I recall correctly RPI need to be 8ms or more (as it only supports PNET2.25 I think). On KSS 8.3 higher PNET standard is supported (2.31+) so this setting can go down to 1ms... but don’t take my word for, check manual....

    1) read pinned topic: READ FIRST...

    2) if you have an issue with robot, post question in the correct forum section... do NOT contact me directly

    3) read 1 and 2

    Edited once, last by panic mode (August 4, 2018 at 1:27 AM).

  • tarun89engg
    Reactions Received
    1
    Trophies
    4
    Posts
    32
    • August 6, 2018 at 7:52 AM
    • #6

    @SkypeFire.

    What do your mean by Low Priority and high Priority traffic? Where i change this attributes in Workvisual. I haven't found anything about this in manual.

    Another thing is I don't have any Problem in the Profinet when the Plant is running in fully automatic. I only have problem when I try to make a backup from workvisual only than the problem occurs.

    panic mode.

    The Manual which i have it didn't say annyting about the limitation for the RPI time. I have a documentaion for the Profinet KRC-Nexxt-2.2.10. If you have any other resources where is written that it has to be 8ms than can you please send me the documentation.

    As i have written earlier, I have changed on some robot this update time from 2ms to 4ms and now there is No any problem during backup from workvisual.

    Before I change to whole plant i would like to know how it will affect on the system.

    Thanks for your time.

  • Online
    SkyeFire
    Reactions Received
    1,051
    Trophies
    12
    Posts
    9,423
    • August 6, 2018 at 2:59 PM
    • #7

    Low- and high-priority traffic is not a WorkVisual thing, it's a general network thing. I should have said "deterministic" and "non-deterministic", perhaps.

    File transfers, web page requests, are examples of low-priority, non-deterministic traffic. If a few packets get delayed, or even lost, en route, it's no big deal. They use TCP/IP in such a way that they can deal with very noisy and over-crowded network conditions without failing. They simply slow down.

    ProfiNet, and other industrial FieldBusses that use Ethernet, are deterministic and hard-realtime, being mission-critical items. They cannot tolerate more than a very small number of packet delays or losses. To be safe, too many delays or losses will cause the driver to fail and stop the machine in a safe manner, because making decisions based on stale data is dangerous.

    ProfiSafe, CIP-Safe, and other safety busses run other Ethernet, have even tighter timing requirements, b/c they involve not machine safety, but human safety.

    What this all comes down to is that, if the physical network you run your Profinet over also has to carry file transfers or other heavy-traffic but non-realtime traffic, your network switches must be configured to cleanly handle and prioritize both sets of traffic. Home routers do similar things -- if you have Netflix or video-conferencing running in one room, while someone else is heavily browsing web pages, the "realtime" packets for the "live" services get priority over the "non-live" transfers.

    Ideally, your ProfiNet network, and your "file transfer" network, would be physically separate. The KRC4 makes this difficult, since it only has one Ethernet port (KLI) for all this traffic, but normally this doesn't cause the kinds of problems you are describing. However, as the network grows and has more "sprawl," the routing can become very strange, and unpredictable things can happen. I had a case where powering down one cell would cause safety faults on other cells that should have been completely isolated, because the automatically generated routing tables were creating spaghetti -- traffic that should have been isolated inside one cell and never gone further was instead being routed out through multiple other cells and switches, before returning.

    I saw at least one major auto manufacturer that failed to understand this, and put all their network traffic (offices, emails, file transfer, Profinet, ProfiSafe, teleconferencing, etc) on the same physical network during a major overhaul, and then spent weeks trying to figure out why all the production equipment kept faulting. In the end, they had to hire some network specialists

    Unfortunately, this kind of network know-how can be rather esoteric -- most corporate IT people don't understand the Fieldbus requirements, and most people who really grasp the FieldBus setups don't have a handle on high-end networking, like smart switches, load balancing, etc. This is a gap that is closing over time, but it still exists.

  • hermann
    Reactions Received
    406
    Trophies
    9
    Posts
    2,609
    • August 7, 2018 at 1:09 PM
    • #8

    Since many years I change the time to 8 ms on every robot I setup.
    Never had any problem.
    As already told: interpolation time is 12 ms, so it makes no sense to use a refresh time of 1ms.
    I think it is only the lazyness of the system programmer at kuka that makes the default to 1 ms.

  • tarun89engg
    Reactions Received
    1
    Trophies
    4
    Posts
    32
    • August 8, 2018 at 12:47 PM
    • #9

    Thanks to all of you for your inputs.

Advertising from our partners

IRBCAM
Robotics Channel
Robotics Training
Advertise in robotics
Advertise in Robotics
Advertise in Robotics

Job Postings

  • Anyware Robotics is hiring!

    yzhou377 February 23, 2025 at 4:54 AM
  • How to see your Job Posting (search or recruit) here in Robot-Forum.com

    Werner Hampel November 18, 2021 at 3:44 PM
Your browser does not support videos RoboDK Software for simulation and programming

Tag Cloud

  • abb
  • Backup
  • calibration
  • Communication
  • CRX
  • DCS
  • dx100
  • dx200
  • error
  • Ethernet
  • Ethernet IP
  • external axis
  • Fanuc
  • help
  • hmi
  • I/O
  • irc5
  • IRVIsion
  • karel
  • kawasaki
  • KRC2
  • KRC4
  • KRC 4
  • KRL
  • KUKA
  • motoman
  • Offset
  • PLC
  • PROFINET
  • Program
  • Programming
  • RAPID
  • robodk
  • roboguide
  • robot
  • robotstudio
  • RSI
  • safety
  • Siemens
  • simulation
  • SPEED
  • staubli
  • tcp
  • TCP/IP
  • teach pendant
  • vision
  • Welding
  • workvisual
  • yaskawa
  • YRC1000

Thread Tag Cloud

  • abb
  • Backup
  • calibration
  • Communication
  • CRX
  • DCS
  • dx100
  • dx200
  • error
  • Ethernet
  • Ethernet IP
  • external axis
  • Fanuc
  • help
  • hmi
  • I/O
  • irc5
  • IRVIsion
  • karel
  • kawasaki
  • KRC2
  • KRC4
  • KRC 4
  • KRL
  • KUKA
  • motoman
  • Offset
  • PLC
  • PROFINET
  • Program
  • Programming
  • RAPID
  • robodk
  • roboguide
  • robot
  • robotstudio
  • RSI
  • safety
  • Siemens
  • simulation
  • SPEED
  • staubli
  • tcp
  • TCP/IP
  • teach pendant
  • vision
  • Welding
  • workvisual
  • yaskawa
  • YRC1000
  1. Privacy Policy
  2. Legal Notice
Powered by WoltLab Suite™
As a registered Member:
* You will see no Google advertising
* You can translate posts into your local language
* You can ask questions or help the community with your knowledge
* You can thank the authors for their help
* You can receive notifications of replies or new topics on request
* We do not sell your data - we promise

JOIN OUR GREAT ROBOTICS COMMUNITY.
Don’t have an account yet? Register yourself now and be a part of our community!
Register Yourself Lost Password
Robotforum - Support and discussion community for industrial robots and cobots in the WSC-Connect App on Google Play
Robotforum - Support and discussion community for industrial robots and cobots in the WSC-Connect App on the App Store
Download