Posts by Mar.Pan

    Hi Skyfire and HawkME,

    thanks to both for your answers and sorry for my late reply. We had some interviews now and got more or less the same feedback regarding different OSs, accessibility, spare cycles, safety etc. and so on.

    We also found that Siemens recommends a maximum task runtime of 70% of the set cycle time. However, you can set the IPO time individually with the restriction, that the maximum task time for operation does not exceeds the time set. Here we could try to analyse if a smaller time and faster I/O updates make the whole operation more attractive.

    However, it would be great to know the potential of the whole idea. Thats why we started to make thoughts about an ideal use case, that hypothesizes a homogenous and relatively new manufacturing line with no accessibility and connectivity issues. We also found out in interviews, that total runtime during normal operation hours is sometimes only 50%. That means, in the other 50% of time, other calculations would not affect the safety of line operation.

    Thats why I looked for any clustering of robots to one network in such a case, but as expected, I found nothing. That's why I have the question if you know of any projects that may have had a look at this question? In such a case, i.e. Siemens CPU 1518-4 PN/DP would be free that is normally applied for high performance calculations. Do you see any potential there (in such a best case of having state-of-the-art HW) or are still the points above predominating?

    Best regards and still a happy new year!

    Thanks for that answer! That really helps a lot.

    I thought there would be limitations, especially in access and connectivity. I am also completely with you regarding the heterogeneous manufacturer landscape. However, it often happens that a company uses a homogeneous landscape, for example.

    Assuming that only relatively new robots of one brand are considered and taken into account by us, one could use this example to show the performance and connectivity. Using the discrete example of Kuka robots, do you see the possibility there, if there are 20 robots in a row, that one could then implement such a project? Or would the overhead and the effort for orchestration be too great in this case?

    Also regarding the accessibility.

    Of course, I have also found examples with >1000 Raspberry PIs, which were still worse than an Intel Core i9-9900K overall. Of course, this already limits the potential, but a certain performance range should be possible for smaller applications.

    The manufacturer example is nice but a but demotivating. The robots should definitely not be used 100% for other applications immediately, but be used to calculate actions that are not directly linked to the system but for planning purposes etc.

    ...are you trying to create a Beowulf cluster using spare clock cycles in robot controllers? Why?


    Trying would be too much. We are investigating the feasibility. But the Beowulf Cluster comes very close! In fact we did a survey and one main reason for not introducing I4.0 related technologies are limited resources (financial and technical).

    If one could make a step around by using the existing hardware, we could try to solve this problem.

    And therefore we have two main point to focus in the beginning 1. technical feasibility and 2. resulting computation power.

    Regarding the spare clock cycles, it hard to say. If no action is performed, the robot can act as a pure edge computing device. If it is working one could utilize the free computation power (to a limited extent, so that always 100% task fulfillment and safety is guaranteed).

    Hi together,

    I wanted to ask if anyone of you knows of a similar project (I couldn't find any, which seems weird), or can evaluate the feasibility of the following idea. I formulated it in a very general way so that no perspective is lost:

    In context of the introduction of IoT technologies companies often encounter limited computing resources, which are no longer sufficient for the intended applications. For this reason, I asked myself how existing robots and machines can form an edge computing network in order to avoid expensive new computer purchases. Thus, a brownfield approach might be feasible without big efforts (may sound to good to be truth).

    For this idea I have 2 questions that came to my attention during my research and where I would be interested in your opinion:

    1. How do you estimate the technical feasibility to form existing robots etc (new Kuka or similar) to a network. This would not only require finding a solution for orchestration, but also meeting safety-critical requirements. As an example, no computation should run for another application, which leads to a malfunction because in the end not enough computing resources were available. How do you see these safety hurdles?
    2. Cost-benefit ratio: In my opinion, there is hardly any computing power in old robots, and the result would not justify the effort. With a modern system (e.g. KUKA KR C4) or a robot with a companion computer, however, I would see some potential, especially if the system is at a standstill. As a newbie in this area, I can't judge exactly to what extent this network is suitable for a real-time production optimization or similar. For this reason I am very interested in a first estimate from you.

    Best regards :)