I asked a similar question a few months back, lots of good info in the thread:
Posts by Tjarkur
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Ah, now I understand what you wrote earlier about CE marking requirements. So who issues the marking, HSE or some third party approved by them?
Let's say health and safety rules are not really enforced here or at least not as vigorously as in the UK for example (I'm in Iceland, outside of EU but in EEA), but installers/integrators will probably get into a lot of trouble if something happens. You are kind of left to your own devices, although many machines (scissor lifts and such) need a yearly government inspection. I'm sure inspections/CE-marking process for robots will be standard in a few years, the relevant institutions just haven't caught up to it yet. It's not uncommon to work with machines that have had safety switches removed because they failed instead of replacing them, even on "government inspected" equipment. The rules are there, the enforcement is just lax. I imagine it may have been similar in the UK 15-20 years ago.
But thank you for pointing that out. I do take safety seriously and I would definitely consult robot safety standards and see if something like the CE marking process is required if I got into robot integration.
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Hi RoboWeld
Just to clarify, are you talking about a formal, documented risk assessment based on ISO standards or similar? Is that standard practice? Or do you just mean that it is good practice? I was counting on there being pretty strict rules about robot commissioning and that's understandable. Considering the press attention robot accidents get, I imagine the consequences for an integrator that fails to, as you say mitigate the risks because of incompetence or negligence, are pretty dire.
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Hi
Yeah, I get what you mean about "selling yourself as an integrator without any training or experience...". Not fond of the idea of trying to convince some customer to trust me and be my first guinea pig. That's a real stopper and not how I want to operate. Not too worried about the safety aspect as I'm use to making the machinery I service / install hard to get hurt by (unless you really want to). Not to the degree of all these safety light curtains, laser scanners, safety mats etc. as it's not as critical but I understand how they work and wouldn't skimp when setting up a robot.
I'm not really questioning the usefulness of the courses, just wondering what the main benefits are and I'm sure I will take the basic ones to start with. Price is however a fair sized chunk to swallow and work loss/downtime while abroad too, but it's doable and might be fun. Probably the smartest place to start. For now I'm checking out RobotStudio and reading manuals to get a general idea. It's fun.
I'll have a think about what you wrote about the UR robots. Maybe I'll approach the local distributor and see if they need need a technician.
Thank you again
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Thank you both kindly, especially SkyeFire (no offense RoboWeld). Invaluable information and fun to read, I now have a better idea of what I might be getting into and what to look out for. This thread will probably be of use to more noobs later.
About the ABB market share, it was kind of clumsily worded and not connected to robots. They have a big market share in electrical supplies, charging stations, VFD's and such. I am however in contact with their main vendor here and I in general like the build quality of the stuff I've taken apart (VFD's mainly). I don't think there are many ABB robots in this country but I've heard of a few in some aluminium smelters etc. Only real integrator works with FANUCs. Also seen a few UR cobots on semi automated food production lines, but not sure who installs them. I take your point on specializing in application areas that are common here. However, the deal with small economies is that you tend to have to be a kind of jack-of-all-trades. Also there are much fewer repetitive jobs that you can automate, compared with in countries like Germany for example. But as you say, welding, handling and palletizing mainly.
Now I have to ask myself if I should go down this rabbit hole and sink €2000 + expenses into the programming course. Could be fun...
If anyone wants to add anything, would be fun to read.
Thanks
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Hi SkyeFire and thank you for the detailed reply.
It definitely helps me to get a better view of how these things work. I guess I was afraid the manufacturers were more particular about who they sell their machines to and reluctant to give out information and software to people they haven't "approved". This is a problem in some industries and is in part understandable because of safety and reputation concerns. From what I read on this forum and if I understand correctly, that seems to be partially true for FANUC. Correct me if I'm wrong.
So I guess the starting point is taking some basic courses and getting a "beater". Sounds good. Thanks.
I see you mainly post on the KUKA forum so I assume you specialize in those. If I may ask, is there any particular reason you chose KUKA (programming language, service, reliability etc.) or was that just where you "ended up" or were pushed into?
QuoteAs far as being "certified" by them as an integrator, you get a certification for each training course you take.
This may seem like a stupid question, but what is the main point of taking the courses? I mean, is it mainly for one self (gaining knowledge), the customer (more able to trust integrator because of credentials) or are they prerequisites to gain access to software, support etc. (maybe for specific systems or software packages) from the manufacturer? Obviously it will be a blend of these things and maybe brand specific, but I'm just hoping to get a better picture.
Quote-- there are more than a few cheap-out artists operating in that space.
Do you mean like quasi-scammers?
May I ask, can you recommend any reputable refurb/used robot companies in Europe (if you live there)? I was looking around and came across Eurobots (Spain) and Global Robots Ltd. (UK). Ever heard of them?
Have a good day and thanks again.
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Hello.
New to the forum here. Forgive me if I'm asking questions that already have been answered. Searched a bit but didn't find answers to my questions. Happy to look at old threads if you know of any.
Short intro: I'm a technician working in misc automation/industrial machine repair. No formal education but adequate understanding of electronics, machining, etc. Live in a small EU-area country with relatively low number of robots due to small economy. This is changing.
I'm interested in getting into the ind. robotics field, but I'm having trouble seeing where to start. It seems the entry level is high. I'm leaning torwards ABB robots (reason: ABB has big market share here, ABB Robotics seem to have a good reputation and they're geographically close). Comments on ABB welcome.
My questions:
1. What is a good starting point to become a technician / integrator? I'm guessing most of you got into robotics through already established companies but for me this is not an option. I have my own (my family's) company that works in misc automation but it is small. Do I approach ABB (for example) and ask for training to get certification?
2. How important is formal education in for example some engineering field when it comes to becoming an integrator for the various big brand robotics companies? (ABB, KUKA etc.) I mean, are they disinclined to want to work with you?
3. How important is an official integrator certificate from these brands to become a technician for their robots? For parts, manuals, software, training etc. Are any of you uncertified technicians and still able to do your jobs?
4. I guess I would start importing newish used/refurbished robots from reputable suppliers or manufacturers. Is this a newbie trap or possibly a good starting point? (note: I have read the used robots thread. Partially aware of pitfalls).
There must be someone out there that has been in my shoes. Happy to hear stories.
Thank you.