Hello,
I starting an old robot KRC1.
When i start the cabinet, the PC start but the teach stay black. I don't understand because yesterday i have start it without problems.
I think that the problem could be a short circuit with the DIN5 connector. (I use an adaptator PS/2 -> DIN 5 to connect the keyboard to KRC1)
What do you think ? it's possible to destroy the principal card with a short circuit in DIN 5 connector ?
Other think:The LED "Control ON" is OK and the PC ventilator is OK.
Thanks for your ideas.
Sorry for my bad english (i am french)...
Problem to start an old KUKA Robot KRC1
- kukart
- Thread is marked as Resolved.
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If the KCP display remains black the possible problems could be:
1. burned out backlight bulb inside the KCP
2. Dead KCP
3. Dead or malfunctioning KVGA card (which provides the video outputs)
4. A motherboard problem of some kind (BIOS, RAM, processor, etc)If you are certain that the DIN5 adapter has a short, it is possible that this could damage the motherboard. I would doubt that, because the DIN5 connector is fairly robust, but it is possible.
The fastest way to test would be to swap parts with another robot, starting with the KCP.
If you cannot swap parts, I would suggest studying the status LEDs on the PM600 module (the big silver box filling the back of the cabinet). I do not remember the pattern these LEDs should have, but I know some of our members do. If the PC is running but simply not displaying, then these LEDs will have a different pattern of Red/Green as compared to the pattern they will show if the PC is not running at all.
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Thank for your post. I don't have other robot to swap parts...
I have noticed too :
- All leds on pm600 are green.
- it's not possible to open the CDROM device then yesterday that was possible (i think that mean the bios not started ?)
- on the kvga card, there is a Led greenThere is also :
- i have put down the current on the krc cabinet yesterday -> maybe this is the reason why the datas are lost and the computer no Start (?)If you have orther idears with this information... (i can send photo of the cabinet if that is necessary)
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The CD drive should open/close as long as it has power, regardless of whether the BIOS has started or not. Unless the PC is ordering it to stay closed, but that should not be happening. This would make me wonder if the PC has lost power, but you say the KVGA card has a green LED, and the fans are still running, which indicates power is still good.
If all the LEDs on the PM600 are green, that indicates to me that the PC is running and communicating with the PM600. That suggests that your problem is limited to the display, most likely to the KCP itself. It's hard to say that with certainty, though, without swapping parts to test.
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I confirm that the cd drive is correctly powered.(i have test power directly on the connector today)
Also, i have test the din5 connector and i have 1V between pins 4 and 5 instead 5V normally (http://www.hardwarebook.info/Mini-DIN_to_DIN_
I think really that is possible that i made a short in this connector. In this case, i would like to think that the problem is the mother board. The din5 connector is the only thing that i have modify since the last one i have seen the KCP Worked normally.
I have try to connect a other screen directly on the kvga card and the screen no receive signal.
I correct that i have said in my last post Concerning the Led Green on kvga card. In fact it's in the other card (where the KCP is connected) where i see a Green led.
I have too a I/O card (optical) where i can see Several light therefore that mean the mother board power it correctly.
So, i think unfortunaltely that the problem is Motherboard or kvga card. I going to try to find orther part to swapping.
Thanks
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Hi,
If you can assure that the batteries of support are well, and correctly wired up I propose you to test the following thing:.Switch on the cabinet (baie) and wait 10 minutes (so you can sure that the robot is booted completly), spent 10 minutes you switch off the cabinet. If all the leds of the PM6 (especially the 3 that are in middle and the third led into group of six at left, in the top part ), the led of the PC and of the DSE (card at side to the KVGA) go out immediately, 95 % of possibilities mainboard.
If the robot supports a few minutes the problem is in the KCP or KVGA.
To know if the problem is in the KCP or KVGA, you can take the HD and mount it as slave in any computer, edit the file autoexec.bat and you should see the following line "c:\fp.com", you change it for "c:\sm.com" (without inverted commas) and you will have signal of video in the KCP and in an external monitor. You mount the HD again in the robot and place an external monitor plugged to the conector of the top part of the Kvga, if you can see in the monitor the boot of Windows (you can't see the boot of bios because you don't have signal of video untill autoexec has been booted) and the BOF your problem is into KCP, if not, your problem is into KVGA sure, and you must test the KCP witn a KVGA ok.
Chance
P.D: A problem known in mainboard of KRC1, is the capacitors (nichicon), there are between 10 to 12 (1500uF 10V, 16mm large) that swell up themselves and that provoke that the mainboard doesn't work. If you change them you recover the mainboard .
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Hi,
Thank you very much for your message gives me hope.
Before testing, i can confirm that when i switch off the cabinet, all the cards disappear immediately (ventilations and lights too). I deduced that the batteries must be discharged.
(this robot did not work for over a year)I'll try the tests you recommended to me and I'll give you the results.
(The robot is not near me now then i can't try tests before one week...)
Thanks
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Disconnect battery and test if PC start OK.
I have that problem with an new KR C2 conroller ,after recharging battery in external device all work OK. -
Hy,
Today, I have tested the battery voltage and I confirm that the batteries were empty.
So, I have replaced them and I have switch on the cabinet and :
- The PC started : LED Control is "OK, ventilation OK , a green LED on the MFC card is on, but teach stay black and nothing happens.
- On the PM6-600, I have 8 greens LED : 3 LEDs at the top to the left and the 3 LEDs on top in the middle (Photo1). Nothing else.10 minutes later, I have switch off the cabinet and :
- 1 LED at the top to left and the 3 LED at the middle of PM6-600 stay on.(Photo2)
- The PC stay on
- The green LED on the MFC card stay on (photo3)
- KCP stay blackSpent 10 minutes PC switch Off himself.
2nd test :
I have tried to put the hard drive on another computer but when i edit the AUTOEXEC.BAT file I dont't find the file c:\fp.com ?Daniel
I have tried to disconnect batteries and start PC. Result is no different : the KCP stay black.Now, I going to try the KCP on other robot...
A question : How its possible that the KCP (and Kukacross) have started good one time and now nothing (perhaps short in DIN5 connector ? or perhaps switch off bay with batteries empty ? ...)
Thanks you very much for your help.
Kukart
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Hi,
about the file in autoexec.bat, if you don't find the line, don't mind, you write the line c:\sm.com and you conected the monitor. I remember that all versión, at least, since 2.2.8 to 2.3.24 had this files into C:\
About your question, according you tell us, the robot works and boots correctly, the problem that you have, it's located in the KVGA or in the KCP.(I think it)
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I my Name is German, and i have de same problem with an old robot KRC1.
Cant you help me please. -
Hello every body ! Sorry for my bad english, i'm french too (french answer on the end) but will try to explain how i solved this problem long time ago on another KUKA
This problem is maybe the same as mine
My problem was that the PC don't started and the KCP was always black !
You can try to touch the hard drive and feel if he is started or not
Mine was not starting because nothing was starting because my motherboard's BIOS was badly set.
Usually, the motherboard should start when power is back but because an empty battery, my BIOS was not set correctly.
The computer was waiting the "start" signal oon the motherboard as a switch!
I only done a little "shunt" between 2 pin on the motherboard (need to look on the motherboard for anything like "power switch").Bon si déjà on est 2 français, j'ai eu le même genre de problème sur un KUKA suite à une batterie défaillante (la pile de la carte mère). Logiquement la carte doit être paramétrée pour redémarrer lors de la mise sous tension, mais avec le BIOS en paramètres d'origine, le PC attendait un signal de mise en marche d'un switch...
J'avais remarqué que le PC ne démarrait pas en posant ma main sur le disque dur... logiquement on sent qu'il tourne (ça vibre) et ce n’était pas le cas... mais peut être que ton CD qui refuse de s'ouvrir est un signe que le PC n'a pas démarré (?)
J'ai simplement court-circuité les 2 "pins" sur la carte mère (faut rechercher un petit ensemble de 8-10 pins, dont 2 sont repérées pour y connecter un poussoir de mise en marche).
Bonne chance ! -
Hi, thank everybody for your answers,
JoseMi,
I confirm you that I have find the sm.com file on the Hard Drive. More precisely, I have two sm.com files in these directories :
- KUKADATA/INTERNAT/TOOLS/KUKAVGA/Chips95
- KUKADATA/GERMAN/WIN95/Chips95My autoexec.bat file is located in other partition in KUKADISK/autoexec.bat.
Detail of my Autoexec.bat file :
REM KIS1 RM DUMMY
mode con codepage prepare=((850) C:\WINDOWS\COMMAND\ega.cpi)
mode con codepage select=850
REM _keyb gr,,C:\WINDOWS\COMMAND\keyboard.sys
SET PATH=C:\KRC\LIB
CALL c:\KUKAROB.BAT
REM KUKA Setup* do not modify or remove this section
AKKUOFF -N
WIN
SMARTDRV /C
AKKUOFF /DD000
REM KUKA Setup+ do not add any lines after this sectionWhere is it the best place to add the sm.com call ?
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Topodoco,
Thank very much for your post because i think really that we have the same problem you had. So, I confirm you that may Hard Drive is not started (when I put my hand on, I don't fell vibrations). I think too that the PC is not started.
I going to try to do a shunt between the two pins you talked but before I would like to be sure where are these pins. So, my motherboard is a SOYO SY-7IZB+ and the manual guide is here :http://www.elhvb.com/mobokive/…o/manual/686/m7izbp10.pdf
In the page 1 of this document (on the motherboard layout) could you confirm me that the 2 pins are those are in the bottom left of the motherboard : RST or PWR ?
French answer :
Ca va être plus facile en français effectivement. Alors, d'après ce que tu décris il semblerait que j'ai exactement le même problème. Mon disque dur ne vibre pas du tout. Le PC ne semble pas être démarré. Je n'ai pas testé la pile mais il y a de forte chance pour quelle soit vide (les batteries dont je parlais dans mon post au dessus sont les 2 batteries 12V dans la baie)
Je vais essayé de faire le shunt. Avant de faire l'opération, peux tu juste me confirmer avec la doc de la carte mère (Cf lien ci-dessus) que les pins dont tu parles son bien celles qui sont situées en bas à droite de la carte. Il y a RST et PWR, te souviens tu lesquelles il faut shunter ? J'espère que c'est çà !
En tout cas merci d'avance. Je te tiendrai au courant du résultat de la manip.-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
German,I going to try the topodoco's test hand i will write the result. I hope that is the solution.
Kukart
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Hi all, yes i done a shunt on the "PWR" pin (left down on the motherboard). It is the usually used to start the computer with a switch but the KRC don't have switch.. therefor it should be set in the BIOS to restart at power back ("PWRON after PWR-Fail") . Maybe the "3V Lithium battery" is empty and therefor the CMOS is maybe reset to the default factory setting.
French: Oui, c'est bien les pins "PWR" que j'ai shunté pour démarrer le PC. Ces pins servent logiquement (dans un PC classique) à démarrer le PC par l’appui sur le poussoir de la tour. La baie kuka n'en possède pas, c'est pourquoi il faut paramétrer le bios de manière à faire redémarrer le PC lorsque le courant revient ("PWRON after PWR-Fail"). Tu peux avoir perdu ce paramètre si la pile de la carte mère est HS... d’où un paramétrage "usine" de la carte mère.
QuotePWRON After PWR-Fail
- On: The system will switch on when power comes back after a power failure.
- Off: The system will remain off when power comes back after a power failure. Default
- Formersts: The system will return to the state it was in before the power failure when power returns. (i.e: If the system was on, it will switch on again, if it was off, it will remain off) -
Hi, everybody et bonjour
If the leds on PM6, DSE and PC was ON before 10 minutes, it's very probable, that your mainboard is ok. When the robot is switched off, it waits some seconds (this time can be setting) and it begins to do a backup of memory and some files (this backup also can be setting) when the robot has finished, the windows closes and the cabinet switch off. The time that the backup is doing the power is supplied for batteries, therefore, yours batteries are ok too.
About the file, my suggestion is that you copy the file to C:\ and you write after "Call c:\kukarob.bat" the line "c:\sm.com" and switch on the "baie" with the monitor.
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Hi,
Bad news.
- I have test the shunt on PWR pins on the motherboard but nothing : The PC no start and KCP stay black.
- I have test to put c:\sm.com in the autoexec.bat file but nothing : no signal in the external screen.So, i confirm that when I power on the cabinet, LED in superior part of PM6 are green immediately and one LED on MFC is green but the PC no start (hard drive makes no noise)
Now, I think that my motherboard is broken (perhaps due to a short in the DIN5 keyboard connector...) I going to try to find an other one.
If someone has another ideas...
Kukart
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10 minutes later, I have switch off the cabinet and :- 1 LED at the top to left and the 3 LED at the middle of PM6-600 stay on.(Photo2)
- The PC stay on
- The green LED on the MFC card stay on (photo3)
- KCP stay blackSpent 10 minutes PC switch Off himself.
I am thinking like i was alone (I don't know the expresion in english), when you switch off the cabinet without soft Kuka (for example when Windows just starts and the cross3 don't boot yet) the robot goes down inmediatly (support akku don't work), nevertheless, your robot(PC) kepts with power for 10 minutes, therefore, your mainboard had to work.
Other options
. You can change the KVGA before the mainboard, it's more easy.
. did you check the capacitors?(you can see file).
. You can mount a speacker, and to do diagnostic with the whistles.Chance
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Hi JoseMi,
I going to replace the 13 capacitors on the motherboard like identified on your picture.
Also, i have bought a KVGA card to try to replace it.
I will tell you the result of these tests...
Thanks.
Kukart
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Hi, kukart
wait a moment, You must change all the capacitor only if someone of them is swollen. The capacitor are 12, not 13, I have checked the photo and one has slipped past (Sorry), which you must change are all the equal ones, 1500uF 10Vcc 16mm hight. I repeat you, only it's necessary if someone of them is swollen.
You can test with one VGA card (the only thing that you must bear in mind is that win95 has the driver of the above mentioned card) and one monitor, at least, you have a PC.
Salut
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Hi JoseMi and thanks for you help,
I visually check the capacitors and all seems good (no swollen). I have attached some pictures of my motherboard.
Today, I have receive a new KVGA card, I going to replace it and i will tell you the result.
I am thinking that you have said concerning the battery alimentation when the cabinet switch off. Really, if you said that the PC stay on during 10minutes only if the soft Kuka Cross is started then that mean my mother board is good. Then the problem is graphic : teach or KVGA card
I continue to looking for...
Kukart
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