Automate 2024 Chicago

    I should have posted to see if anyone was in town and wanted to get some coffee or tour the show together. Show is over, I think it was phenomenal. Every manufacturer was there. Some things I picked up that may be common knowledge for others:

    1.) Chinese robots are not trusted because of how much data they are trying to steal. This type of thinking is new to me as I have been in china many times and didn't see it on cyber espionage. I always felt they are way behind in software development. China robot manufacturers are insisting to disconnect their robots from the lan network.

    2.) AI robots are the future and everyone will be replaced. Humans are just like the horses that were replaced by cars at the turn of last century.

    3.) Humanoid robots are too inefficient. I had a nice meeting with the founder of brooks and this was one topic I brought up. He convinced me they are not the future. He brought up an old failed honda robot and how it needs 2kwh to function and honda gave up. 100 watts/h is better. I don't see Tesla installing them at homes in near future.

    4.) Surprising to me that the largest market for robots in 2024 is in the electronics field but I really didn't find any robots that catered to my needs. I like small, light and fast and I prefer cheap cobots (means industrial robots with light curtains/cameras). Electronic manufacturing is on microlevels. Epson has something in the works but I feel their robots are still too big for what I want. I stopped by Mecademia's booth and liked their robots but too expensive for my taste, double epsons prices.

    5.) Everyone has 6 dof cobot on the market right now and they all look alike. I have a hard time imagining such large arms being used in day to day environments (coffee shops, mcdonalds, ice cream parlors, etc). No one is distinguishing their robot arms from others. I think there is plenty of room to make lighter cobots.

    6.) I learned about harmonic drive and liked their simple robot design but too expensive. I think I am the only one purporting cheap industrial robots, under $5k. I feel like epson's t3 should be under $4k by now after selling a few hundred thousand units. I am having to design my robot from scratch as I am not finding ultra lightweight robots (under 10 lbs). I haven't been able to check if the harmonic motors are cheaper in china.

    7.) Everyone was very respectful and helpful that I ran into at the show. Alot of good will. Somehow show is 4 days but feels very short. Too many people to meet. I had atleast 20 manufacturers to visit.

    8.) I did learn the reason controllers are not built into robot has to do with power/speed. Higher voltage has to have thicker gauge wire which requires external box.

    9.) I stopped by a booth regarding bin picking/3d vision and saw how a cheap elephant robotics mycobot (which I liked for its ultra compact nature) failed within 3 days of the show. No longer on my watch list. If the robot had worked it was a nice tabletop companion.

    Next year is in detroit, I am thinking to go, mostly to learn/absorb Robots/automation. Show felt similar to years past, many companies were debuting new robots. I liked the robot dogs/pets running around at the show. Needs more of it to liven up the atmosphere. We need some r2d2's and other robot helpers.

    Quote from Reckless

    I think I am the only one purporting cheap industrial robots, under $5k.

    Everyone's been wanting that for decades. So far, no one's been able to make it work -- that price point simply can't support building a robot with industrial levels of speed, payload, robustness, reliability, accuracy/repeatability, and reach. The circles on that Venn diagram don't all intersect. UR tried to enter the market at the "bargain basement" price point, and took a lot of stick for how their first few robot generations failed early under industrial use rates, even at low payloads. And even UR hasn't been able to get below the $30k mark, IIRC.

    If anyone had cracked the problem, I'd expect to see it from at least one of the many new startups stampeding the low-price, low-payload space, but not so far.

    the only way this can happen is of someone designs axis that includes motor, encoder, drive, gearbox, into something that has standard flange on each end (say Nema 23 or 34) and make the design open source so multiple vendors can make them without paying for royalty or licenses. only this way price point of under 1k per axis can be achieved....

    then making a robot is a simple matter or connecting several of them into a robot... like attaching Lego pieces.

    1) read pinned topic: READ FIRST...

    2) if you have an issue with robot, post question in the correct forum section... do NOT contact me directly

    3) read 1 and 2

    Quote from SkyeFire

    Everyone's been wanting that for decades. So far, no one's been able to make it work -- that price point simply can't support building a robot with industrial levels of speed, payload, robustness, reliability, accuracy/repeatability, and reach. The circles on that Venn diagram don't all intersect. UR tried to enter the market at the "bargain basement" price point, and took a lot of stick for how their first few robot generations failed early under industrial use rates, even at low payloads. And even UR hasn't been able to get below the $30k mark, IIRC.

    If anyone had cracked the problem, I'd expect to see it from at least one of the many new startups stampeding the low-price, low-payload space, but not so far.

    I think Epson is close at $7k for their scara. This US startup has done it:

    Dorna Robotics - Dorna 2 Robotic Arm
    Dorna 2 Robotic Arm is a user-friendly industrial-grade tabletop robotic arm, ideal for pick and place or other automation applications. Starting at $2990!
    dorna.ai

    Dobot had one for awhile but they seem to be pivoting.

    China is able to produce these type of 3 axis cnc style for $800:

    TBK 983B Automatic Dispenser UV Waterproof Glue Dispensing Machine for Mobile Phone LCD Glass Scratch Polishing Repair Use


    The secret sauce seems to be using stepper motors over harmonic drive:https://dorna.ai/blog/design-pr…a-robotic-arms/

    I have been tempted to make my own custom super thin, ultra lightweight 4 axis robot similar to this with harmonic drives even at higher cost but previous article posted has scared me off seeing issues they mention (some don't make entire sense to me). Also not sure how long of a reach I can make a 3 axis robot (4th is just on end effector). I would like 500-750mm if I am custom designing. It would resemble this but longer.

    Those Cartesian machines are the "easy mode" of kinematics, though. Closed rather than open, no or poor positional feedback, very low strength, very small work envelope.

    The Epson SCARAs are decently industrial machines, but SCARAs are still low-hanging fruit in many ways. Most of their expense goes into making the mechanical bearings very rigid against cross-axial forces, and making the axes as low-backlash as possible. That plus their simplicity makes them popular for chip-fab and PCB-population operations.

    Stepper motors achieve their price point by having little or no positional feedback. Their motion also has lower resolution than a real servo motor, though a high gearing ratio helps with that. ClearPath, for one, makes some pretty decent "servo" motors out of steppers with built-in high-quality positional feedback, but they're much more expensive than a typical NEMA-whatever stepper.

    Quote from SkyeFire

    Those Cartesian machines are the "easy mode" of kinematics, though. Closed rather than open, no or poor positional feedback, very low strength, very small work envelope.

    Yes, but what I see is a need for cheap robotic 3 axis and 5 axis to cover majority of situations. Dispensing robots run $10-60k and they are variations of this china one which I suspect is only $500 in quantity.

    For 5 axis I think Dorna is on a good track but I wish it was even smaller/easier to deploy, similar to mecademic but $2000 instead of $15k. elephant robotics sells similar one for $500 but not reliable.

    Just like china is taking over the world by making cheap evs same is going to happen with robots.

    Cool feedback on the show.

    Have you seen Yamaha's newer low cost high performance YK-EX SCARA series? Ive deployed 4 of them here in Japan now (2 of them with the Yamaha vision system too), pretty easy to use machines and pretty cheap with the current yen to usd exchange rate. the 400mm range one is 800000￥, cant remember but I'm pretty sure that is for the robot, controller and little pendant (about 5300 USD right now, but pretty unusual exchange rate at the moment).

    No idea what the international distribution is like on them or if they would suit your needs but they are about the cheapest industrial robot I have experience with (and mostly positive experience so far)

    ハイコストパフォーマンスモデル YK-XE - 産業用ロボット | ヤマハ発動機株式会社
    お求めやすい価格で、生産現場の高効率化、省人化、品質安定をかなえます。
    www.yamaha-motor.co.jp

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