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KUKA KPP 600 20 3x 20

  • robot-cnc
  • May 7, 2024 at 7:01 AM
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  • robot-cnc
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    • May 7, 2024 at 7:01 AM
    • #1

    Hi

    I was wondering if a Kuka KPP 600x20 3x20 could swap a KSP 3x20 in this order KPP 600x20, KPP 600x20 3x20, KSP 3x40.

    Since an external axis can be link to a KPP 600x20 1x40 .

  • panic mode
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    • May 7, 2024 at 2:21 PM
    • #2

    they look the same (same form factor) but functionally they are different:

    KPP = Power supply (KPP0)

    KSP = Servo amplifier

    then KUKA started bringing out more products by adding servo amplifiers into KPP. since the form factor did not change, ability to dissipate heat is limited. Most of it is reserved for KPP, rest is shared among the servo amplifiers so the more servo amplifiers are present, the lower the max current.

    KPP1 = KPP with one servo amplifier (max 64A)

    KPP2 = KPP with two servo amplifiers (max 40A)

    KPP3 = KPP with three servo amplifiers. (max 20A)

    the next part is software. on KSS8.2 there is no drives configuration option in WoV - everything is manually hardcoded into wagon drivers. So configuration variety here is limited.

    in KSS8.3+ you can rearrange drives and axes any way you like making things much more flexible.

    in older systems robot axes were powered by pair of KSP and KPP was PSU for all of them.

    but the downside is if you needed to add external axis, KPP had to be replaced for KPP1 or KPP2 or KPP3. then you are stuck with extra KPP that is of no use....

    in newer software default configuration is to only have single KSP for A1-A3, and KPP3 for A4-A6. that way one space in the controller is free and you can populate it with KSP so you could have up to three external axes, each capable up to 64 amps.

    so as long as there is some KPP and some KSPs you are probably ok. just make sure configuration is correct. WoV does not know what the real arrangement is and proposals can be wrong. YOU need to make sure the configuration matches reality and YOU need to assign correct FSoE addresses to each unit.

    finally ... the interfaces.

    X20 is internally wired to two units. but the lengths of the cables depend on location of those units (left and middle, or middle and right). same goes for EA motors.

    1) read pinned topic: READ FIRST...

    2) if you have an issue with robot, post question in the correct forum section... do NOT contact me directly

    3) read 1 and 2

  • robot-cnc
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    • June 20, 2024 at 9:55 PM
    • #3

    I have this KRC4 with kss 8.3, driver configuration

    KPP 0

    KSP 3x20 KSP 3x40

    I want to add instead KPP 0 a KPP 3x20 and it seems that not work, giving messages velocity exceeded in T1 error on A5, A6 brake.

    With KPP 0 was ok, no error.

    I think KPP 3x20 is the cause.Is probably unsuited FSOE.

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    • June 21, 2024 at 1:29 AM
    • #4

    i don't see how would that be related....

    what exactly did you change? did you JUST swap the KPP (physically and in WoV)?

    or did you ALSO do other changes... like add external axes? or use recommended drives configuration or similar?

    it is more likely that when you modified drive configuration, something else was also changed... possibly the drive mapping.

    post screenshot of your drives configuration.

    1) read pinned topic: READ FIRST...

    2) if you have an issue with robot, post question in the correct forum section... do NOT contact me directly

    3) read 1 and 2

  • panic mode
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    • June 21, 2024 at 1:32 AM
    • #5

    if you changed drive mapping or made mistake to allow WoV to recommend or pick drive configuration for you, chances are that in WoV project robot is no longer connected to two KSPs but rather to KSP and KPP. so when you try to move robot, wrong drives and brake circuits are activated since internal cabinet wiring did not change.

    1) read pinned topic: READ FIRST...

    2) if you have an issue with robot, post question in the correct forum section... do NOT contact me directly

    3) read 1 and 2

  • robot-cnc
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    • June 21, 2024 at 5:01 AM
    • #6

    I swaped Phisicaly KPP drive , instead KPP 0 with KPP 3x20 to add an external axes.

    For the moment external axis is not avsilable, will next.

    Robot axis are connected on same drives KSP 3x20 and KSP 3x40, as they allways was.

    I also changed drive mapping in WOV and deployed project in KRC4.

    But I get those errors.

    The KPP 3x 20 I took it from another KRC4 , newer ,where axis 4 5, 6 were connected through it. Here being only 2 drive KPP 3x20 and KSP 3x 40.


    I think that KPP 3x20 need to have external axis assigned to it in mapping because having no assigned axis expect to be connected with 4,5,6.

    Does it make sense?

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    • June 21, 2024 at 5:10 AM
    • #7
    Quote from panic mode

    if you changed drive mapping or made mistake to allow WoV to recommend or pick drive configuration for you, chances are that in WoV project robot is no longer connected to two KSPs but rather to KSP and KPP. so when you try to move robot, wrong drives and brake circuits are activated since internal cabinet wiring did not change.

    Yes, I think something like that happens

    Even I try to map robot axis with KSP 3x20 and KSP 3x40 and to keep free KPP 3x20 for external axis, WOV likes this configuration, move 4,5,6 on KPP 3X20

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  • robot-cnc
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    • June 21, 2024 at 8:34 AM
    • #8

    The KUKA KR C4 robot controller can be used to operate external axes in addition to the robot axes. There are different drive configurations available for this. The options include the corresponding KUKA Power Pack (KPP) with the integrated servo unit and the associated interface on the connector panel.

    The following KPPs are available for external axis 7:

     KPP with amplifier for one axis (KPP 600-20-1x40) Peak output current 1x40 A

     KPP with amplifier for one axis (KPP 600-20-1x64) Peak output current 1x64 A

    The following KPP is available for external axis 8: 

    KPP with amplifier for two axes (KPP 600-20-2x40) Peak output current 2x40 A


    It seems that KPP 600-20 3x20A is not suitable for external axis.

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    • June 21, 2024 at 2:22 PM
    • #9

    i disagree... as long as your external axes are ok with max 20Amp this is more than suitable...

    this is not exactly rocket science... in fact it is very intuitive, and one just need to pay a little bit of attention and know how to use a computer.

    on KSS8.3 and higher you have visual editor in WoV to configure drives and this gives you a lot of flexibility.

    do not just go at it blindly or pick very first proposal... there is a LIST of them. pick configuration that actually MATCHES your system. when KPP3 is present WoV is putting this setup on top of the choices... but... this is NOT the ONLY choice you are given... so do not ignore what the previous configuration was and how the things are physically wired - software configuration and physical configuration need to match.

    if you want to go with ORIGINAL plan and have external axes on the KPP, no wiring change is needed, no drive swapping, no FSoE changes... you just need to swap KPP, install new interface for external axes and connect it to KPP. And in WoV choose CORRECT configuration... or manually connect axes in correct fashion.

    But... if you want to keep THIS axis mapping (as WoV last proposed for KPP3), then wiring will need to be adapted. You will need to swap places of the two KSP (The 40A will need to be in the middle) and remap the FSoE addresses. you can try to simply move each motor and brake to the right, so that external axes will be on the KSP on the left. But existing wiring may be too short for that. If so you would have to buy new interfaces (wiring harness from drives to front of the cabinet).if your robot is smallish and A1-A3 can work on 20A drives, then KSP40 can stay on the left and be used for external axes. However this is not likely. KSP40 was there for a reason, or there would be KSP20 in its place.

    1) read pinned topic: READ FIRST...

    2) if you have an issue with robot, post question in the correct forum section... do NOT contact me directly

    3) read 1 and 2

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    • June 21, 2024 at 2:41 PM
    • #10

    this is how one can get into proposals

    1) read pinned topic: READ FIRST...

    2) if you have an issue with robot, post question in the correct forum section... do NOT contact me directly

    3) read 1 and 2

  • panic mode
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    • June 21, 2024 at 2:49 PM
    • #11

    and then you can have project with drives configured like this:

    and as mentioned before, this is a graphical editor, you can rearrange connections is you like... but... whatever you do:

    a) it must make sense
    b) must match physical connections


    for example you can connect motor to a different drive, or resolver to a different RDC channel

    Manual connections show up as solid lines:

    1) read pinned topic: READ FIRST...

    2) if you have an issue with robot, post question in the correct forum section... do NOT contact me directly

    3) read 1 and 2

  • robot-cnc
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    • June 21, 2024 at 8:30 PM
    • #12

    Thank you.

  • robot-cnc
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    • June 28, 2024 at 8:30 PM
    • #13

    I gave up on KPP 3x20 and returned to KPP 0 , everything is ok in this config.

    I retried with a KPP 2x 40 A

    When add KPP2x40 WOV put in this order:

    If i open proposal and rearange as I have KSP order in KRC4, I get this configuration but it seems red line undotted is not liked, even project can be deployed in KRC4.

    But same error about axis A5 and A6 defective brake return. They are checked, no defect.

    Why is not liked this configuration?

    Should I swap KSP driver in KRC4 to have them WOV liked order?

  • robot-cnc
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    • June 28, 2024 at 8:41 PM
    • #14

    Sorry, I solved.

    When replace in WOV KPP and try to keep arrangement of KSP , line connection from KPP 2x40 to KSP 20 is continnous red. Unliked.

    But I removed KSP 20 and 40 and added again in my wanted order KPP2x40, then KSP20 and last KSP 40.

    Thus line became dotted between KPP2x40 and KSP20. Liked. I deployed project in controller and everything is ok, E1 motor move and no error appear.

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