KR C2, Profinet, and Mitsubishi

  • Hi all,

    I'm trying to make KR C2 and a Mitsubishi PLC talk over Profinet. These two were happily married, but then the PLC software had to be changed. The owner did not have source code, and the previous company who did maintenance lost all the files, so I had to work with what I could read from the PLC.


    Problem is, after downloading new PLC program, the Profinet communication stopped. It had worked previously, I am sure of that. I've checked Inputs and Outputs on KCP and they transferred correctly back and forth with PLC.

    I think maybe the problem is because GSD file was not stored in the PLC, so when I uploaded project fro PLC, the PN configuration was blank. When I downloaded a new program, it got a blank config, and thus the comms stopped.


    I've read manuals from here, that didn't help much because it was for configuring a Siemens PLC, not Mitsubishi.

    I've tried using GSD files from here. When I import them, Mitsubishi Profinet Configuration tool takes the files, but when I configure the PLC PN module and go online, there is no communication.

    I can ping both the PLC and CP1616 card. Activity lights on the LAN switch are blinking furiously. CP1616 is already configured, so I think the problem must be in the PLC.

    Using GxWorks3.

    PLC CPU is R04EN, Profinet comms module is RJ71PN92. Kuka controller is KR C2 + CP1616 PN card. PLC and Kuka were exchanging 16 inputs and 16 outputs, all binary, no analog.


    Where to go from here? Are the generic GSDML files for CP1616 not suitable here, or I'm configuring them wrong?


    Is there a possibility that there is a GSDML file stored somewhere on the KR C2 hard drive?


    Thank you all very much!

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  • correct way is to get one from manufacturer

    AFAIK, the robot has been bought second-hand from some Turkish supplier, and the machine's manufacturer (who integrated robot with the palletizer) doesn't want to share it, or they lost it. Either way, it's unavailable...


    I'll post some screenshots later.

  • AFAIK, the robot has been bought second-hand from some Turkish supplier, and the machine's manufacturer (who integrated robot with the palletizer) doesn't want to share it, or they lost it. Either way, it's unavailable...

    There should be no issues getting it from KUKA. You might need to provide them the exact model of your Profi card, and maybe the model data for the KPC. But KUKA has always been able and willing to provide that. The card and robot were made by KUKA, the original integrator is irrelevant.


    Note: Despite the fact that this Profi card appears to be a "standard" Siemens product, the firmware is probably customized for use in KRC2s. So Siemens probably cannot provide a working GSDML, although they may have one for a model number that looks identical.

  • When you need something go to the source....

    CP1616 card is manufactured by Siemens and it is used as one of communication options by KUKA. those would be the manufacturers in this case and not some integrator from Turkey.


    Integrator was simply using products made by others and was putting them together. In rare cases integrators may be willing to help competitors or someone else's clients but - they are not obliged to do so. They are in business to do their own business and support their own creations, but... they are not in business of aftermarket support of Siemens or KUKA products.


    KRC2 driver and GSDML may be is adapted to KUKA and that is where i would look for support first.

    GSDMLs for KRC4 are all from KUKA:


    1) read pinned topic: READ FIRST...

    2) if you have an issue with robot, post question in the correct forum section... do NOT contact me directly

    3) read 1 and 2

  • There should be no issues getting it from KUKA. You might need to provide them the exact model of your Profi card, and maybe the model data for the KPC. But KUKA has always been able and willing to provide that. The card and robot were made by KUKA, the original integrator is irrelevant.

    Well, this is the response I got from KUKA:


    As far as I know the GSDs are PLC independent. So basically the one you download from the siemens homepage, should fit.

    In former times, the CP1616 was also imported in Omron PLCs, or even Allen Bradley PLCs (I mean PLCs from 10-15 years ago).

    We do not store these GSDs, or GSDMLs from Siemens, we delivered them together with the controller, or Profinet Cards via an external CD. Card and CD were 1 package/box, we never had them separate.


    >Note: Despite the fact that this Profi card appears to be a "standard" Siemens product, the firmware is probably customized for use in KRC2s. So Siemens probably cannot provide a working GSDML, although they may have one for a model number that looks identical.


    That's what I was afraid of...

    If I can't make the Profinet work, then my only other option is to use direct I/O (24VDC), that is, if they're available on the unit.

  • i just checked the old files to satisfy own curiosity, jog my memory and see if i can find anything useful. Unfortunately i no longer have the files (including NCM manager).


    i do recall that in the old days KUKA used to supply NCM manager (normally part of Step7). this software (standalone or included in Step7) should allow creation of custom GSDML file:

    SIOS


    notes:


    Siemens does offer download of Step7 trial version which is a pretty large download.


    Instructions shown are for firmware 2.7 but i am pretty cure that this should be earlier version for KRC2 (2.2 - 2.5?). One should be able to get older versions imported into hardware catalog or force export as a specific version. Not sure if that is available if older board is chosen. But attached are two variants of the export (2.2 and 2.7) so you can compare and adjust manually as needed.



    Instructions are not quite complete. It should start by creating new project and I am now aware of another way to access device configuration... you can of course change number of bytes to transfer. Click on transfer arrow to toggle transfer direction



    don't forget that in case of ProfNet, device name need to match on both ends (controller and device).


    hope this helps and good luck....

  • example of changing area size for transfer.

    btw this was done using first version of the board (6GK1 161-GAA00, firmware 2.6) and the address space is grayed out. also there is no "customization" option.




    btw. This was done with an old VM that happened to still have an expired Step7 V14 trial. :winking_face:

  • I'm going to try some things tomorrow. First I need to make the KRC2 operational, and make sure Profinet is working from robot side. I got some "cannot write to pnio" messages. Maybe something messed up after CHKDSK.


    I've found multiple IO.SYS files on KRC2 hard-drive, some on C partition, some on D partition. Which one is the right one?


    Then I'm going to search for some Profinet diagnostic software.


    Luckily I found a working Siemens Step7 V5.7 installation in a VM. Found some CP1616 GSD files, maybe they'll help someone.


    CP16xx_gsdml_step7.zip



    example of changing area size for transfer.

    btw this was done using first version of the board (6GK1 161-GAA00, firmware 2.6) and the address space is grayed out. also there is no "customization" option.

    btw. This was done with an old VM that happened to still have an expired Step7 V14 trial. :winking_face:

  • I've found multiple IO.SYS files on KRC2 hard-drive, some on C partition, some on D partition. Which one is the right one?

    The one the robot uses is the one located in C:\KRC\Roboter\Init


    The KRC2 supports multiple FieldBus adapters (DeviceNet, ProfiBus, Interbus, etc) at the same time. IOSYS.INI is the "multiplexer" where all the different FieldBusses converge into the $IN/$OUT I/O table. IOSYS.INI also controls which FieldBus drivers are activated.


    Given that your robot appears to only have ProfiNet(?), your IOSYS.INI will probably have all the other drivers commented out.

  • As far as I know the GSDs are PLC independent. So basically the one you download from the siemens homepage, should fit.

    In former times, the CP1616 was also imported in Omron PLCs, or even Allen Bradley PLCs (I mean PLCs from 10-15 years ago).

    We do not store these GSDs, or GSDMLs from Siemens, we delivered them together with the controller, or Profinet Cards via an external CD. Card and CD were 1 package/box, we never had them separate.

    That's news to me. But if so, that means that Siemens should be able to provide the correct GSD files, since KUKA's response implies that the GSDs were not customized for KRCs.


    Now, I will say that Siemens, in my experience, tends to be very... particular, shall we say? That is, every device they make seems to have 77 different sub-variants (and sub-sub, and sub-sub-sub....), and you have to find the exact file for your particular sub-sub-sub-sub-variant, and the Siemens software provides zero help in figuring that out -- it just refuses to run if you have hardware 1.2.3.4.5 and the file for 1.2.3.4.4.


    (What? I seem to have a sore spot regarding Siemens? What makes you say that? :pfeif: )


    Anyway, if you can contact Siemens, they should be able to help you. Although they'll probably need the detailed part number, and perhaps serial number, off your CP board.

  • if i was dealing with this system, my top priority would be to make image backup or HDD.

    Yeah, I know. Should've known better. My first priority was to avoid dismantling the PC at all costs, but then I remembered I could boot some ancient 32-bit Live linux and create a disk image to an USB flash...

  • Okay, looks like I'm stuck again.

    I was getting these errors: "Error on writing driver: PNIODRV" and there's still no communication.

    Kuka software is version V5.6.1.2.

    Dummy driver for CP1616 seems to be installed correctly.

    This is the state of the installed hard drive.

    Some random diagnostic I've found.

    I've managed to reinstall KRC software (found the installation dir at D:\KRC1_CD\) but it was the same version as the one already installed).

    I've tried reinstalling CP1616 driver at D:\KUKA_OPT\PROFINETIO\ it installs correctly but still doesn't work.


    Configuration files:

    Code: C:\KRC\ROBOTER\INIT\IOSYS.INI
    [DRIVERS]
    PNET=26,pnioInit,PnetDrv.o
    
    [PNET]
    ;DEVICE
    INB5=1,1,x1 ;IN41-48 (plc -> robot)
    INB6=1,2,x1  ;IN49-56 (plc -> robot)
    OUTB5=1,3,x1  ;OUT41-48 (robot -> plc)
    OUTB6=1,4,x1  ;OUT49-56 (robot -> plc)
    Code: C:\KRC\ROBOTER\INIT\pnioDrv.ini
    [CONFIG]
    ENABLECONTROLLER=0
    ENABLEDEVICE=1


    On the PLC side, in Mitsubishi's profibus configuration software, the CP1616 is reported like this. I think the 0x21 are the inputs, and 0x22 are outputs.


    Finally, here is the output from web server of CP1616: [1]   [2]   [3]   [4]

  • What software did You use to download the CP1616 configuration in the board? STEP7? NCM Manager?


    If Yes, You can put them online and look for errors on CP1616 itself.


    Another thing to take in consideration is the subslot section on your iosys.ini file, the second number after the = signal.


    I had lots of trouble in the past because these numbers didn't match the subslots configured on PLC side (so in Your case it would be at Mitsubishi project, not in STEP7/CP1616 project).


    Code
    [PNET]
    ;DEVICE
    INB5=1,1,x1 ;IN41-48 (plc -> robot)
    INB6=1,2,x1  ;IN49-56 (plc -> robot)
    OUTB5=1,3,x1  ;OUT41-48 (robot -> plc)
    OUTB6=1,4,x1  ;OUT49-56 (robot -> plc
  • I had lots of trouble in the past because these numbers didn't match the subslots configured on PLC side (so in Your case it would be at Mitsubishi project, not in STEP7/CP1616 project).

    In the PLC project I have this configuration (structured language):

    Profinet slave's (robot) slots 1 and 2 are inputs, and 3 and 4 are outputs.

    SLV001 = slave 1

    SLOT00x = profinet slot number

    Edited once, last by kvlada5 ().

  • I have not tried to change the configuration inside CP1616.

    Can't find NCM Manager, but I have Step7.

    Step7 will be good.


    Looking at Your pictures, looks like CP1616 already have assigned IP and Device Name, so in theory, You wouldn't need to change anything inside, unless You plan to use it as a Device/Controller.


    Anyway, in case You want to take a look inside the CP1616 project, pull it with Step7.


    You need create a blank project. After, use the PLC > Upload Station to PG menu function.


    Don't forget to change Slot to 1, on Select Node Adress window.

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