Replacing 710iC arm

  • Hello everyone,


    I will be doing a complete robot arm change out with a new one in the coming weeks to a month. The cabinet will be staying and everything, just the arm is changing. What would be the best procedure in getting the arm to act like the old one? Do just load in the sysmast.sv or is there more to it? Can I direct enter master_count? What's the purpose of having the mastering data on hand?

    Any help would be greatly appreciated!

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  • I would just type in the master counts from the new arm into the controller. Master counts are stored in the $DMR_GRP[1].$MASTER_COUN variable.


    Having the mastering data on hand is valuable, as those are the counts from the mastering fixture from the factory. You can get close with the witness marks, but using the original counts (assuming they are still good. Battery loss, or a motor swap will make them void) gives you the best shot at doing minimal touch ups.

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  • Nation Does the new arm come with the master counts on like a sheet of paper or something? How do I know the master counts of the new robot? I'm assuming all I'll get is the arm and that's all. Thanks for helping.

    Edited once, last by PPP ().

  • pdl good question. I would assume from Fanuc but there's no telling. I'd have to ask the guys who do the ordering at my facility.


    I looked at the reducer life and it's still under 10% for us. J3 is the only one that's over 20%. We have a lot of blown seals and it's leaking grease all over. J4 was basically dry. I wonder how accurate the diagnosis is for the reducer life page.

  • When shipped new from Fanuc, the reducers will appear dry, but they're not. They're actually at the correct level as prescribed by Nabtesco. PM'ing them actually overfills them, which is why it's so important to follow the purge procedure.


    Blown seals just means they were improperly PM'd. Do yourself a favor and change out the grease zerks on the new arm with M6 SHCS. Store the zerks in a place where only a properly trained person can access them. A lot of maintenance people don't understand that just because they see a zerk, that doesn't mean they should automatically give 'er a few pumps.


    I don't know that Fanuc sells bare manipulators only, that's doesn't seem to jive with their business model, but I could be wrong.


    I wouldn't be surprised if you have to remaster the robot.


    What's the application, and why are you replacing the whole arm? Is it just the seals, or are there other issues.


    Just a thought, do you have enough robots to justify having a complete spare arm in your spares inventory?

  • pdl I did check, it did come with the cabinet and all. I checked in the storage area. We have the robot here. The main reason for replacement evenually is the seals blown and it's jerking some at certain points. Even the other robot (we have 2 that do the same thing) that one is only a year old and not 4 months in, the seals got blown out. Wasn't even due to a PM or anything like that. It's the 50kg one and the tool that it is throwing around is right at 50kg and that's not including the festo manifold/cable pack that's sitting on top. The payload was never set right from the beginning. They are running at max speed even. We are picking up a big plastic part and throwing it around a flamer to flame the part. There's a ton of twisting and rotating going on for the pathing.

    The grease we are taking out is extremely burnt. I did look at the manual and I moved the robot around a lot to release the air/pressure before plugging it back. It's the EOAT that's beating the robot up

  • HawkME I've tried getting them to get a bigger robot but it was turned down. Reasons are beyond me. I can only speak up and say hey, I wouldn't do this again. There's a lot of issues in general with the cell as an overall. The flame should be on the robot, not the part. I can see both robots stuttering at certain points and it runs constant almost 24/7. Sometimes it don't run weekends. I don't know much about the internals of the robot but it can't be good. The one we want to change out has been running over the last 6 years. It has had 618 collisions even.

  • pdl I did check, it did come with the cabinet and all. I checked in the storage area. We have the robot here. The main reason for replacement evenually is the seals blown and it's jerking some at certain points. Even the other robot (we have 2 that do the same thing) that one is only a year old and not 4 months in, the seals got blown out. Wasn't even due to a PM or anything like that. It's the 50kg one and the tool that it is throwing around is right at 50kg and that's not including the festo manifold/cable pack that's sitting on top. The payload was never set right from the beginning. They are running at max speed even. We are picking up a big plastic part and throwing it around a flamer to flame the part. There's a ton of twisting and rotating going on for the pathing.

    The grease we are taking out is extremely burnt. I did look at the manual and I moved the robot around a lot to release the air/pressure before plugging it back. It's the EOAT that's beating the robot up


    Please don't take this personally, but it's not the EOAT that is beating up the robot, it's the user (again, not you, but the company). If this robot was integrated by another company, I would be discussing this with them. However, this does not necessarily place the blame on them.



    Is collision guard enabled on this robot?



    When you state "I did look at the manual and I moved the robot around a lot to release the air/pressure before plugging it back."


    How did you move the robot? Jogging in T1, or running in T2/Auto?



    What environment does this robot operate in?



    As HawkME said, you need a larger robot.



    You might also want to consider adding additional local ventilation to the motors.

  • Yes it was integrated by another company. The engineers signed off on this years ago.


    Collision guard is just standard. At the 100%.


    Robot operates in a climate control building.


    I would love to get a bigger robot. May not fit. The cell is so tight together there's not much room to move.


    I did move the robot in T1. Not in auto.


    I'm not taking this personally. No worries. It's a learning thing for me and my company. I want to become smarter to help the robots survive longer and be happier.

  • There is a 70 kg payload variant of the 710iC with the same dimensions and reach, it just has the speed reduced. If you can deal with the cycle time, that would be a much better option.


    M-710iC/50


    M-710ic/70


    The robot really needs to be exercised with the seal bolts out after greasing. I would also recommend using a vacuum to create an air pocket, both on the inlet and outlet side. When properly lubricated, a vertically mounted reducer should only be filled to 3/4 of the reducer diameter.

    This is from the Nabtesco (they supply the reducers to Fanuc) technical brief:


    "too much filling may causes damage for an oil seal with increase of internal pressure. Please leave about 10% of the room inside"

  • Yes I am aware of the 70kg one. They didn't wanna do it. I forget the reasons. Like I said earlier, I can only offer advice. I believe they are beginning to understand and listening more but that's a work in progress.


    Our greasing was with a vacuum. We would use that on the outlet as we pump on the inlet till we got clear grease coming out the outlet port.


    How do you know if you're only 3/4 full on the vertical reducer? Just by working it a lot? Letting it work it's way out? Then plug the holes back?


    I'll be sure to bring this up and see what they say. But just because it's blown seals and a little jittery we shouldn't be changing it?

  • You'll never know the exact amount, but it's important to make sure they're not topped off.


    In one of your post you mentioned that J4 was basically dry. I just want you to know that is actually correct from the factory. Once you do a PM, you'll never be at the "correct" level, but that's pretty much impossible unless you want to tear the robot apart, which I'm in no way recommending.


    That's good to hear you use a vacuum. I also like to remove the inlet zerk and suck a little out.


    Quote


    I'll be sure to bring this up and see what they say. But just because it's blown seals and a little jittery we shouldn't be changing it?


    Changing the grease or the whole robot arm?


    Yes, the grease should be getting changed. Especially with the overload you are putting on the robot.


    Changing out the whole robot arm? Why not just the bad reducer(s)?

  • pdl well I'm not sure since the reducers are at max 30% and that's only one j3. Rest are under 5%. Are they even bad? Does the jerkyness come from the reducers? Almost sounds like maybe the robot don't need to be changed then. They are wanting to possibly change the whole arm out.

  • What do you mean by jerkiness?


    When jogging at slow speed, fanuc's are naturally "bumpy". Sorry, it's hard to come up with a good word to describe it, but you'll know it when you see it if you've seen it before.


    If it is jerky at high speed when running, that's a different story. But, it sounds like your robot is overloaded, so I really can't comment on that either.


    I do know that replacing a gear reducer and its input gear are difficult, if you have the proper training or similar experience. It's 90% rigging and having the correct tools.


    I would find a reputable integrator to come in and take a look. Even a private contractor with Fanuc experience could be valuable; a lot of guys go this route after years of field integration wears them out.


    IMO, replacing the whole arm is throwing the baby out with the bath water. I've worked on dozens of Fanucs that have over 100,000 honest hard working hours on them with only a few motor or reducer replacements. Most of those are 20+ year old palletizing robots that run 24/7/360+ days a year at high speed and high, but within spec, load.


    How many hours are on the robot that is getting replaced?

  • I mean like, when it makes certain moves, you can see the wrist studdering. Kinda like hitting speed bumps. Not sure how to describe it really. But definitely overloaded is true.


    I've never had the privilege of integrating a robot or anything. So most of my experience comes from self taught. I don't get to ask more experienced people. This little conversation has opened my eyes a lot on things I thought I knew and things I had no idea.


    I'd have to look and see how many hours are on it. Honestly I couldn't tell you. But it's nowhere near 20 years or even 10. The integrator installed the cell back in 2016 if I'm not mistaken plus or minus a year.


    I've never taken apart a fanuc either. So that's all new for me. If we had to do something like that then yes we would get a contractor to come in with that. Anytime I hear we are getting someone with knowledge of fanuc I'm right there to assist and learn from to help grow my knowledge.

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