Speed Variable

    Dear Community,


    I need your suggestion about the following problem:


    We have Yaskawa H50 with the controller DX100.

    The Robot has to paint the elements/components, which be located on the table (BASE). The table is in fact an external axis, which can be rotate through a (3~syncronous servo motor).

    Of course the rotation speed of the table has to be related to the speed of the robot movements.


    Both of the robot and the table are slaves , where a PLC is the master.

    Now i need to hear you opinions about the best way to control the speed of external axis according to the speed of the Robot.



    Best regards and many thanks in advance!

    Thank you for your reply.. 😊

    But unfortunately I don't have a singular control from yaskawa like MP/iec.

    I have Siemens plc .

    If you think it is also possible, please let me know how to do it correctly.

    Edited once, last by Toty ().

    Coordinated motion has nothing to do with a plc. If your external axis is connected to the controller, coordinated motion just needs to be turned on.

    I know a thing or two, because I’ve seen a thing or two. Don't even ask about a third thing. I won't know it.

    Quote from Motouser

    Do you mean that the sincronous motor are not connected (hardware) to the DX100?

    Yes exactly. The station and dx100 are not connected directly to each other, but each of them connected to the same plc separately.

    Quote from 95devils

    Coordinated motion has nothing to do with a plc. If your external axis is connected to the controller, coordinated motion just needs to be turned on.

    You are right! But our external axis is not connected to the controller dx100 😬

    Congratulations, you will have much fun.:upside_down_face:

    Your setup is not good for your task. I had the same task, but with a Fanuc. The first shot was trying with the external axis as an independant axis. It was a pain in the ass to create the trajectories.

    After using the fresh installed option coordinated motion (luckily the axis is connected direct to the robot), it was much easier to setup the motions.

    My conclusion is: It is nearly impossible to do that task with an independant axis. Except you can split the movements into separate sections where the external axis stands still during painting.

    But I have some more complicated geometries than cubes (excentrical cylinders with some cubes and elliptical mounted to the cylinders).

    Wish you luck. The controller is a decade old. Tools that would make this somewhat easier don’t exist on a 3 generation old controller.


    I don’t see how you can pull this off easily and accommodate for variations with the robot and external moving at the same time. It would be so much easier if the externals were controlled by the robot controller.


    Purchasing MotoComm and using a pc would also make this do able.

    I know a thing or two, because I’ve seen a thing or two. Don't even ask about a third thing. I won't know it.

    1-

    Thank you for your replies 😳

    After I got all the news that I was afraid from them. I have to think an alternative ways.

    Is it not possible to send the plc frequently through for example (system. Job) the current speed of the robot as an analogue variable and in this case the plc can change it corresponding to the form of speed of the external station?


    🤔

    2-

    Returning back to the topic connecting the external axis to the controller directly,

    Is it still possible to make the connection when my external axis controlled through its own frequency converter?

    I think it is no problem in this case, isn't it?


    Best regards

    Quote from Toty

    2-

    Returning back to the topic connecting the external axis to the controller directly,

    Is it still possible to make the connection when my external axis controlled through its own frequency converter?

    I think it is no problem in this case, isn't it?

    Thank you all for your help, you let me spare a lot of time:blumen:
    And regarding this Question, is it still possible to controll the external axis through the Roboter when the external Staion has its own Frequency converter?

    I think it should be no Problem , just i need PROFIBUS MASTER BOARD installed in the DX100. Isn't it?

    Quote from Toty

    ... just i need PROFIBUS MASTER BOARD installed in the DX100. Isn't it?

    No, no, no.

    You can't control the axis with activated coordinated motion with profibus. It has to be an axis controller from yaskawa.

    You can control the axis via profibus, but then you have the same problems like controlling it over the PLC, no improvement.

    I asked about your part geometries because in the case of a disc, sphere or cylinder you could look into the option "Thermal Spray Speed Control Function". It will make your robot move faster as it reaches the center of the workpiece, which you will define as a user frame. Paint is probably similar enough to thermal spray for this option to be relevant. As far as a cube goes, it might still work. This option is not very well known, but we use it here. Same situation, the table turns at a constant rate, but the robot moves faster and faster as it approaches the center of the uframe and then slower on the way out.

    Quote from Lemster68

    I asked about your part geometries because in the case of a disc, sphere or cylinder you could look into the option "Thermal Spray Speed Control Function". It will make your robot move faster as it reaches the center of the workpiece, which you will define as a user frame. Paint is probably similar enough to thermal spray for this option to be relevant. As far as a cube goes, it might still work. This option is not very well known, but we use it here. Same situation, the table turns at a constant rate, but the robot moves faster and faster as it approaches the center of the uframe and then slower on the way out.

    That's really interesting.

    I didn't know about it.

    As I told you we have different shapes but we will start with the cubic one.

    Sometimes we have shapes with different geometries and some irregularities.

    I have to search more about this function.

    Many thanks

    👍🏼👍🏼

    Hello,


    You have got your self into pretty challenging stuff. I have faced similar kind of challenge in my past with Nx100 controller and in house built servo driven rotation table. They were slave of SLC 500 AB PLC for Mig welding and powder painting.


    In my experience you will need to come up with very accurate handshaking algorithm. That algorithm will run by your PLC and direct your robot and rotation table independently to perform tasks.


    Try to avoid scenario of your robot painting objects and and your table is rotating same time.

    Quote from Toty

    Of course the rotation speed of the table has to be related to the speed of the robot movements.

    I have done spray and powder painting programming in my past even with 2 years of experience in this I always ask painter how he would paint particular job and try to mimic that human actions into robot. Try to talk to some professional painter and discuss with them that what if you cannot satisfy above quoted condition with available setup how would they paint your job. I am pretty sure they will definitely come up with some good idea.


    let me know how it goes.

    Quote from Lemster68

    If you cannot find the information you need, I should be able to post the manual. Just let me know if it is necessary.

    That will be very helpful to me for sure.

    Yes Please I need each small information that you might have :flower:

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