i try to use for the first time my two kuka agilus kr6 r700 sixx robots and i have some problems,could you please give some help?

  • everything to be said is already said..


    about ProfiNET...


    it is an industrial type of network. it allows data exchange between nodes. you can think of it as ProfiBUs over Ethernet. like all industrial networks, to optimize efficiency special protocol is used but hardware and network infrastructure for industrial ethernet network is no different than plain Ethernet you may use at home or in the office.


    all networks support standard data ("standard" means not safety rated). transferred message is also called frame or a telegram or mail or packet etc. but they all mean the same thing. basically message contains two things:

    a) some overhead needed for transport (info like, message number, sent from, sent to, size etc.).

    b) data-block or "payload".. this is actual DATA being transmitted. it will be extracted when transferred message reaches destination


    some networks also support safety frame. normally this is a separate message (with different structure) that is sent at different interval since high priority. failure to arrive on time (as measured from previous exchange) would be considered loss, if certain number of messages are lost, connection is deemed bad and safety node shuts down assuming the worst... number of consecutive messages that trigger fault are some small number, usually 1,2,3 or so.


    in standard Ethernet networks nodes are called client or server based on their role in the network.

    server has to start first, then it sits and waits for some request. when request is made, server tries to process it and return result, then waits for next request. any website is an example of a server. client is device that tries to connect to server. web browser of your computer is one such client.


    but anyone has seen some pages loading slowly when server is too busy or network is exhausted, but... the system is able to deliver messages though a variety of routes, if reconnected, new route will need to be reconnected. such features add complexity and resolve problems even after some deays or several retries.


    industrial networks use same hardware but protocols are designed to not be as flexile (many things are stripped down) but optimized for performance (fast reconnect, fast update, little or no negotiation etc.).

    also terminology is changed, instead of client/server, there are terms like master/slave or controller/device or scanner/adapter etc.


    role is important because it defines resources device may need.

    slave is usually a "stupid" device with fixed purpose... like IO
    .... slaves are normally not aware of other slaves and don't care about them .. .as long as everyone has unique ID (name or address or node number)

    slaves are a lot like servers. they sit and wait until someone tells them to do something.


    master is different. it needs to know how many slaves are in his/its control. what are their capabilities (IO type and size) etc. master is one that starts all communication (establish connection, tell slaves what to do etc.).


    so to make an industrial network you need a master... and one or more slaves.

    in general master-to-master communication does not work. same is with slave-to-slave.


    so your robots were part of a plant that used Siemens Safety PLC. Safety PLC can process both standard and safety logic and in same network can be mix of slaves, some that only support standard messages, some that support only safety messages, some that support both.


    that PLC is apparently still in the plant and not with you. it was working as a master for both standard messages and for safety messages.

    your robots were slaves. from PLC side they looked like dumb devices (nothing fancy, simple blocks of inputs and outputs). actually there are two sets of IO blocks (standard and safety).


    now that robots are standalone, they don't get messages from master so you get ProfiNet messages complaining that master is not contacting the robot. worse, safety messages are missing. this means that safety circuit in robot times out and then disables drives. this is why you cannot power up robot drives.


    unless you connect (and properly configure) safety PLC to act as a master, your robots will be dead. , same master can be connected to several robots (one master can connect to several slaves). but you are also lucky because with KRC4 you can still at least play with robots in StartUp mode (requires T1 mode) but you will NOT be able to use robots in AUT or EXT mode.


    so you are looking at getting safety rated PLC, Siemens software, some safety IO and having a lot of fun learning how to use it. But this is a good news... it has lots of potential.


    the other news is that KRC4s can have different safety interfaces. one of them is X11. when using X11, ProfiNET does not need to be uninstalled... but it need to be at least configured differently. for example you can use it to exchange only standard data with Siemens PLC, instead of safety messages (ProfiSafe) you could use X11. or you could completely get rid of ProfiNet for now but you must have functional safety interface (this is used to enable drives).

    if you do not have X11 interface uninstalling ProfiNet will disable robot completely... even Startup Mode will no longer work (instead of red banner, you will see gray one). gray banner means no valid safety interface is found so drives cannot be enabled. StartupMode cannot enable drives on its own... it only bypasses safety interface. but ... when no interface is configured - there is nothing to bypass.



    using X11 interface means hardwiring safety devices (external inputs, Operator safety, Operator safety Ack button, external enabling switch). For test one can place some jumpers. This is dangerous of course but at least this would allow enabling of drives any time and running in any mode - without safety PLC.

    1) read pinned topic: READ FIRST...

    2) if you have an issue with robot, post question in the correct forum section... do NOT contact me directly

    3) read 1 and 2

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  • panic mode,i have read your post again and again...lots of new words for me in there but i begin to understand how things work with the robot...so

    if i get it right..,you previously advised me to turn off profinet thru workvisual,you still advise me to do so,but after turning it off(or after leaving it installed but reconfiguring the safety data stream to x11) i will need to put some jumpers in the x11 socket so that i can have a hardware safety ,and this is the safety that i will bypass in start mode.correct?if i get it right,then first of all,turning off profinet (or reconfiguring it for assigning the safety to x11) is possible only thru workvisual?or it can be done also by the smartpad?i installed workvisual in my laptop,if it is only done thru workvisual,i will try to learn how to do it there i guess.and after profinet is disabled.,are there any schematics on how-where should i put the jumpers in the x11?as i told before,the robot came without any papers,no schematics,no manuals.

  • here is a picture of the x11 socket that i accidentally have...i can see that some pins are allready blocked?is it possible that the x11 is allready hardwired for a hardware safety use?if yes,then,how could i reconfigure the safety directlly to be managed thru the x11?only in workvisual or also in the smartpad?if only in workvisual.then.workvisual acts like a simulator of the robot ?do i connect my laptop to the cabinet while i use the workvisual?or i do it in two steps ?id definitelly prefere a step thru the smartpad if this is possible.but ofcourse i will try to learn workvisual if it is a necesity at the moment

  • make sure to have backup,


    take current WoV project and save it as a new file (choose different name, so you don't overwrite original at the KRC in case you ever choose to go back)


    install and configure WoV (make sure to integrate KOP files for tech options that have it)


    open the new project and delete ProfiNet bus... save and compile. it should automatically change safety interface to X11 (at least on small controllers).


    deploy and activate new project then also activate safety configuration.


    wiring of X11 should be done, while using ProfiSafe original X403 wiring is unplugged from CCU and replaced by a small jumper plug.

    you unplug that jumper and zip-tie it to something inside controller so it is easy to spot, and connect original X403 to CCU (has wires going to X11).


    that should be it for the conversion.



    this is jumper plug to be removed if using X11. Carefully squeeze retention clip to open, then pull it out

    1) read pinned topic: READ FIRST...

    2) if you have an issue with robot, post question in the correct forum section... do NOT contact me directly

    3) read 1 and 2

  • these are pictures of the inside of the two cabinets,i think that i spotted the unplugged x11 cable and i guess that the jumper substitute that helps the profinet is somewhereon the left side of the ccu where the cables are crowded and i do not have good visual...


    as for the work visual.i have installed it in my laptop.do i have to connect my laptop with the controller somehow? by ethernet?do you have any previous thread with information about starting with work visual?here in the forum?.


    as for the

  • where are you located? try to check your area maybe there are some support you can get. it can be very hard at first but once you had someone to show you how this things works( I mean actual/training). actually things you are asking are on the manuals.

  • that is a very good suggestion and already proposed while thread was still one page.

    forum is meant to point in the right direction and offer ideas but it cannot be substitute for formal training. too many things can go wrong very quickly. that means dangerous, expensive or both.


    he already stated that he is in Athens, Greece but robot is at his friends place some 300km away but that could be many places... maybe Agrinio, Trikala, Karditsa, Larissa or Volos.


    it boggles mind that one could find hard to use forum search feature. why not just lookup "X69" or "work visual connect"? people who find such tasks challenging, should not try to configure robot that they have never seen in their life.


    i tried each of the searches, each returned handful of results and here would be some worth checking out:

    KLI Interface Problems

    Transfer WorkVisual Project to KUKA Officelite

    1) read pinned topic: READ FIRST...

    2) if you have an issue with robot, post question in the correct forum section... do NOT contact me directly

    3) read 1 and 2

  • the robot is in patras city .and i will transport it back to athens in the following 2 days because of an upcoming lockdown that will prevent me from travelling there so that i can continue with all your suggested steps.yes the manual is a good idea, and i have allready tried to read it,and every time i become more familiar.i just needed an initiation and your forum is perfect for this,and i am really thankful to all of you.as for the possibility of someone who can give to me a formal help...well here in greece there is no kuka representation ,i have found 2-3 persons who are integrators of multiple brand robots,but they are not available at the moment for a reasonably priced lesson..

    when i have the robots set in my house in a safe manner,i will send feedback from my upcoming attempts to jog the robots...

    i will also try to sell them,so that i can buy a kuka cobot like iiwa or iisy or a smaller kr4 sixx so that i can be more flexible and portable while trying to learn them...these two kr6 r700 sixx that i bought are heavy and i have quite regret buying them,because of their size and weight...


    if you can suggest anyone in greece with kuka knowledge for any future training it would be awesome

    also if any one of you needs to buy two kuka robots like the ones that i allready have,feel free to send me your offers.


    thank you again all of you for your help and for your time

  • Hi Angelos

    I believe I may have the sister machine to yours.

    The errors appear the same.

    Maybe we can share hard drive images, it is likely Error machine data does not match, is consistent with the wrong robot to controller.

    I sent my machine to Kuka , and they were unable to resolve the issues. Thinking a cabling issue perhaps

    I am not sure how you contact me

    Thanks

    Dion

  • I currently have the robots packed and stored.I was my mothers caregiver for some years.so my robot project was cancelled.and now I am willing to sell them.I have two systems robot-controller-teach pendant-cables.would you be interested on buying them?

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