Manipulating KUKA KRC4 safety bits with PLC with El6695-1001

    Sorry for duplication. New post with additional information and hopefully better explanation.


    I'm currently trying to manipulate the safety bits in Kuka KRC4 with an OMRON NX plc with kuka el6695-1001 as a bridge. I'm trying to turn on reserved bits as required per SafeOP.


    Using FSoE (EtherCAT) as communication between the Kuka and PLC.

    The KRC4 is connected to the primary side of the bridge, and the PLC is connected to the secondary.

    Using the correct DTM file from Kuka, and using the ESI from Kuka on the PLC.

    The safety ID on both sides are matching.

    I believe the safety signal are correctly mapped because I'm able to display the output from PLC on the SmartPAD.

    Both non-safe and safe communication are working and the output from the PLC can be displayed on the SmartPAD.

    The inputs from 2009-2013 should be bits 10 - 14


    I've tried changing the "Module Config send method" to "send", but received the error msg: "Slave State Transition Failed", so I'm not sure thats the right way to go.


    Edited 3 times, last by iOdden ().

  • iOdden

    Changed the title of the thread from “Manipulating KUKA KRC4 safety bits with PLC through El6695-1001” to “Manipulating KUKA KRC4 safety bits with PLC with El6695-1001”.

    >> "I believe the safety signal are correctly mapped because I'm able to display the output from PLC on the SmartPAD."


    on the robot side only non-safe IO are to be mapped and this seem to be ok.

    safety io are predefined and cannot be mapped by user.


    on the plc side you need to map both safe and non-safe io

    non-safe seem to be ok, safe io mapping on plkc end is not confirmed.


    >> "Both non-safe and safe communication are working and the output from the PLC can be displayed on the SmartPAD."


    no, safety communication is clearly not working:

    1. this is clearly shown by message KSS15002. btw you should show all messages, not only the most recent one.

    2. you are not showing if the the safety signals to KRC are set on PLC side (including safety input bit 0, byte 0)

    3. you are not showing if the safety task on PLC side is running or not

    4. when KRC gets the signals (including safety input bit 0, byte 0 set to true) red banner on the smartpad will go away

    5. you still have not confirmed that safety IO size (64-bit) is correct on PLC side



    >> "The inputs from 2009-2013 should be bits 10 - 14"


    i have no idea what is that supposed to mean. guess you are trying to tell something about non-safe I/O but this is not relevant any more since it is already established that non-safe I/O work and topic here is about safety signals.



    >> "I've tried changing the "Module Config send method" to "send", but received the error msg: "Slave State Transition Failed", so I'm

    not sure thats the right way to go."


    i have no idea what is that supposed to mean. where is this setting supposed to be? WoV or Omron side?

    Thank you for the reply! I will try to eloborate more.

    Sorry for any misunderstandings,


    1. Will attach the following warning messages. I were not able to inspect the other messages, might be able to inspect if I resolve this one first(?)



    2. I thought it was built up like this, so I could match the reserved bits on Kuka from Safety Data.


    >> "The inputs from 2009-2013 should be bits 10 - 14"

    What I meant, was I tried to map the safety data to match the one in the SafeOP manual. So in this example the input 2009,..., input 2014 should be bit 10,..., bit 14.

    In Outputs_Subindex 001_7001_01 I tried to match the first 16 bits in SafeOP from the PLC. But I guess that's not how I'm supposed to do it.




    3. The program in safety is running, and I its online when I connect.

    I assume the safety task is running. I do have a program for the emergency button, but thats all I have in safety program, and the safety task is running that program. I can add an image if thats would make more sense.


    4. I thought the red banner was a good thing, so I did not think much about that, but it makes sense it should disappear when the reserved IO is correctly mapped.


    5. Will attach the image of safety input in PLC and the PDO list.

    But I do believe I have 64 bits.

    Only the Outputs_Subindex_00x_7000_0x displays on the KRC4.

    unfortunately I dont know what the Outputs_CRx_7000_0x does, since it has no effect on the Kuka.


    Thanks for taking your time.

    Edited once, last by iOdden ().

    Check topic READ FIRST for some essential info like key manuals, how and where to find them etc. HMI operation is one of early sections of the system integrator manual. Make sure to go for integrator manual and not end-user manual. Later one is much thinner and skips many important topics.


    Now you can see that robot needs A3 mastering. Without this you can jog if using axis coordinates but not in Cartesian. Also cannot run any programs.


    Cannot help you with plc side since dont have omron software. 8 byte is correct. Make sure that safety task is running and cobtains rungs that keep reserved signals at TRUE or this will nevee work.


    Robot side safetty interface seem to be configured ok for FSoE. Not sure if isafetty configuration on the KRC4 is actually activated. Also network connections are correct,, correct bridge and device description files are used.

    1) read pinned topic: READ FIRST...

    2) if you have an issue with robot, post question in the correct forum section... do NOT contact me directly

    3) read 1 and 2

    Thanks for answer, will look more into the manuals.


    Just to simplify:

    I need to create a program within the safetyCPU that sets the reserved bits to TRUE and make sure the safety task is running that program?

    The A3 mastering is something we can manage/fix after non-safe and safe data communication is working?


    Omron also told us in February that Sysmac is not open for any third party FSoE yet. That might also causing a problem.

    But we do have non-safe data communication between Kuka and Omron, so we have some type of connection.

    yes, in your PLC there can be many programs but ... every safety PLC will also have Safety Task. this is a special program that deals with safety IO. if you don't need safety functionality, you do not need to create safety task but in this case you must have it. logic that uses those 64-bit safe in and 64-bit safe out MUST be in the safety task of your PLC. to get safety communication working few things are needed:

    + KRC must have ONE safety interface (not more and not less). in your case that is FSoE and NOT ProfiSafe or CIP Safety or X11

    + when not using X11, matching Safety ID on PLC and KRC are a must. so is correct I/O configuration (using correct device description file)

    + PLC safety task must constantly keep on all reserved bit that KRC4 expects (this will make comms message and red banner go away from smartHmi)

    + PLC safety task must turn high other signals to allow robot to move (EstopOk, UserSafetyOk,operationStop1, operationalsStop2, external enableswitch etc.).

    + if not using X11 safety interface, circuits for external enable switch must be jumperred.... either on X11 itself (as a workaround) or directly on CCU (normal case). lookup X311 jumper plug.

    1) read pinned topic: READ FIRST...

    2) if you have an issue with robot, post question in the correct forum section... do NOT contact me directly

    3) read 1 and 2

    Thank you for the explanation, it makes a lot more sense now.


    I will try to make a program that sets reserved bits to TRUE.


    Just to be sure, its these I/O i should be mapping? But here I do only have 4 bits on safety outputs.

    well, sure... but... those are some other safety I/O modules, not the KRC4 safety I/Os.


    in fact i don't see KRC4 in there at all. i would expect to see some node/unit representing EL6695-1001 secondary and it should have 64bit in, 64 bit out. (8 bytes each = 64 bits).



    Sort of like this (just photo shopped, to make a point):



    Once you have that added into your PLC Configuration and Setup, PLC may try to exchange the data with the KRC4...

    Then you can have those KUKA safety I/O used in your safety task...

    1) read pinned topic: READ FIRST...

    2) if you have an issue with robot, post question in the correct forum section... do NOT contact me directly

    3) read 1 and 2

    Like 1

    Thank you, im currently in contact with Omron to see what has to be done from the PLC part since they dont officially support third party FSoE safety slaves. It seems like the biggest challenge is to successfully import the ESI file to the safety controller enviroment.

    for this to work, Omron development team would need to dive in and ... this is not a small thing so i would not hold my breath...

    1) read pinned topic: READ FIRST...

    2) if you have an issue with robot, post question in the correct forum section... do NOT contact me directly

    3) read 1 and 2

    Omron said they would investigate the ESI file I'm using, but as you said its not a small thing to do.

    Omron Said their might be a possibilty to get a modified ESI file accepted in the safety controller environment, but it only works with the SL5xxx series.

    But if this is not working we'll probably go for CIP-safety or X11 instead.

    Quote

    I want to configure Kuka KRC4, Omron NX1P2 PLC and EL6695 module.

    ok, but if you really want EL6695 module, why is your screenshot showing EL6695-1001? those are two different products


    Quote

    ...on the Omron side and the Workvisual side

    that is two sides but you showed part of configuration on one side only


    Quote

    Photos of my transactions are on the link.


    That link is not accessible, it is not public

    1) read pinned topic: READ FIRST...

    2) if you have an issue with robot, post question in the correct forum section... do NOT contact me directly

    3) read 1 and 2

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