PMC vs BGLOGIC

    Hi Guys


    Just after some opinions really and also any specific advantages, disadvantages in using PMC or BGLOGIC.

    I know it can be based on application dependency, but some generalised comments would be appreciated:


    - Ease of setup and integration.

    - Ease of debugging and modification for end user.

    - Alarms and faults associated with bad sequencing - ie system reporting of problems from BGLOGIC or PMC (do you have to code monitoring in).

    - Limitation comparisons between them.

    - Would you use PMC and BGLOGIC if so, any example (not code).

    - Anything else you could mention.

    My suggestion would be to Use BG Logic for simple things that you may need to be monitored in the background. If you find yourself with a huge and complex task then I would graduate to using a 3rd Party PLC communicating with the Robot.


    I personally would not get PMC because we already have standardized on a certain PLC and not every machine has a robot, so I wouldn't want to add an additional PLC-esque product into the mix that only works if you have a Fanuc robot. Also, BG Logic is free.

    Thanks for your comments, yes I understand PMC is Fanuc's proprietary PLC and if you already have a standardised method using an alternative vendor, then PMC would effectively be redundant for use.

    However, in that instance, I would assume you still use BGLOGIC as well as the alternate PLC.


    The only thing I can find in my circumstance is that PMC, provides live monitoring interface accessible from the teach pendant, whereas using BGLOGIC, it is much like Karel in terms of it runs in the background and you cannot (my term) 'sniff' on the process.

    I would still BGlogic because it has access to the robots system variables and certain things just make sense to control with the robot.


    I wouldn't put BGlogic in the black box category with karel. You can start, stop, and edit it directly on the TP. I believe you can see io state directly in the BG logic program by turning on IO status in edcmd menu. You could also do split screens to monitor its behavior on registers, variables, etc. So you can "sniff", just not as good as a Plc. That's why I don't recommend BGlogic for a large complex task.

    Excellent, I wasn't aware of the IO status function available in the BGLOGIC.....but saying that, it can be edited via the TP, I could have come across that, just never used it....That's a nice tip for sure..... :top:


    Yes, so in terms of PMC and BGLOGIC monitoring from the TP, then it's available as is.

    Just a case of end user preference then...….and yes, importantly, BGLOGIC is free.


    Agreed, with complex tasks, then a PLC derived solution would be better, either PMC or alternate vendor (if end user has a preference).


    Cheers for your comments, much appreciated.

    The IO status works for any TP program whether it is BG Logic or a regular program. It will show the status and value of an IO Type. So for example if DO[1] is on it will show as DO[1:ON] and the word "ON" will be highlighted green. For Group I/O it will show the integer value.


    To make edits to BG logic you have to temporarily stop the BG program, edit, then press run again. This can be done while a normal program is running, just not the BG program that you want to edit is running.

    Since you mentioned it, I looked into the IO status function and works really well and easily followed too.

    I'm still looking into the PMC direction too, just for my own learning and also, one of my clients have several Fanuc's, some with PMC, some with alternative PLC's and the question has been asked about continuity and standardization.


    They are not aware of the BGLOGIC side of things, as they have never had it provided, so it's all about gathering the pro's and con's ahead of time really.


    I think the PMC side, you need the software to write the ladders which I assume costs too (I think it is FAPT Ladder or something similar).


    Would you happen to know if this can be used in conjunction with Roboguide for 30ia and 30ib Controllers?

    PMC files really need FAPT Ladder to be edited but, You should use FAPT Ladder for Robots, since there is a version for CNC machines. If I recall correctly, PCM is a thing inherited from FANUC CNC line.


    The only case I think where PMC would be more useful than Karel or BG-Logic is if You need to monitor/control some kind of external axes, like a servogun or something. BG-Logic can't handle this type of job, and I'm not sure if Karel does. I think not.

    Ah, that's good to know about external axes/servo gun...…...noted.


    I take FAPT Ladder for robots, is only exclusively available from Fanuc Robotics then and no doubt licensed and no doubt carries a cash cow behind it?


    I've seen FAPT Ladder is a standalone application for generating the .LAD and can be connected ONLINE.


    Any ideas about using it with Roboguide, can it also be connected to the virtual system?

    In theory, if the software connects online, then an IP and Port no. must be used, therefore I couldn't see it would be that hard to implement that into Roboguide (providing the internals of Roboguide have that functionality programmed in).


    Afterall, you can connect an Ethernet/IP IO Block to the PC and communicate with that via Roboguide, so for Fanuc not have thought about using FAPT in conjunction with Roboguide would be a missed opportunity in my opinion.


    I shall do some further reading into this, and see if there is route to use FAPT with Roboguide…..then I just need to get hold of copy - any ideas....:icon_wink:

    I've just fired something off to Fanuc about this, so I shall see what they come back with.

    Yes, you can connect Fanuc Ladder 3 to connect with Roboguide. I think I found the instructions in the Roboguide help. It's not that bad, just need to know how to set a couple things. But some simulations I did were greatly helped by having some simple ladder logic running in the background to monitor things that were much more of a pain to do in TP code.

    bencor21 , good to know someone's achieved it...….:top:


    I expect there are limitations between Controller versions and FAPT versions too.

    ie R30iA and R30iB, can you confirm connection to either/both of these using FAPT Ladder III?

    bencor21

    Any chance you can offer any insights in just how you achieved this?


    I have gone through the Roboguide manual and also PMC manual relative to R30ib and made the same settings as documented and just keep rolling doughnuts.


    I have tried several FAPT software versions from 5.7 through to 7.3, all produce the same results.

    - They attempt to communicate to an IP on the port (I have tested this with third party software to ensure the FAPT is attempting to establish communication), but fails to connect to Roboguide.


    There has to be an additional setting within Roboguide to allow for communication, ALL PMC options have been set from install and IP 127.0.0.1 including setting an internal network, allowing through and disabling firewalls and all I see are doughnuts.


    Any points, tips or prayers would be very much appreciated...……….???

    I've only ever done it a few times on R30iB. Not yet on a plus.


    I would say 1st off, make sure your virtual Robot has the PMC option. I'm using Fanuc Ladder 3 V8.20. I have no clue how much of a difference that makes. CNC & Robot are combined in that version. 1st time I did it, they were not. Each had their own Ladder 3 software.


    I'm currently searching for the document that I reference to get it connected. I know I have a hard copy somewhere... Hold on.

    in Roboguide go to help > contents > go to the search tab > type connect virtual robot with > hit list topics > go down like 10 items & you should see connect virtual robot with fanuc ladder-III for Robot. That is exactly what I used. I don't remember deviating from those instructions.

    Yes, I came across the fact there are a couple of versions earlier for CNC and Robot and the Roboguide Manual documents using either.

    The versions I have, I believe are the robot ones and like I mentioned, I can confirm those versions are trying to establish a connection with an IP and Port (by using some third party software).


    I did receive a PRIO-98 response from within Roboguide, so I think it is 'knocking at the door', just doesn't seem to be 'opening it and welcoming me with open arms', which leads me to believe it could well be down to a setting within Roboguide.


    The attached image (referring to the status of the virtual controller and PMC Programmer is all appearing as I believe is correct in order to establish comms on IP 127.0.0.1 and Port 49501.


    Also, to note this is via Windows 10 Pro, so there could be issues within the OS (although I can't see it).

    Quote


    in Roboguide go to help > contents > go to the search tab > type connect virtual robot with > hit list topics > go down like 10 items & you should see connect virtual robot with fanuc ladder-III for Robot. That is exactly what I used. I don't remember deviating from those instructions.

    Yes, that's exactly what I've followed, also looked into the PMC manuals too, for R30iB there is a procedure in there for Roboguide which I also looked and tried but 'Mrs Fanuc is not lifting her shirt for me'...……….


    I'll keep pursuing with it and see if I can get her to dance, cheers for the help, appreciate it.

    Ok so we are onto 2 things I haven't done with Ladder 3, R30iB+ & Windows 10. Just got my new laptop in the last month with Windows 10 & haven't tried it yet. I recall the 1st time I tied to do it, I didn't get it right away. Like most things Fanuc, there's usually 1 little bit of information you may have overlooked that makes the entire thing not work.

    Yes, I'm not using a specific model and to be honest, I'm more concerned about 30iA...…

    The PMC documentation for 30iA, does not mention about Roboguide, as PMC manual for 30iB does.

    (I'm waiting on Fanuc to give me the definitive answer for 30iA and Roboguide).


    The fact you managed it with a 30iB is enough for me to take away and is probable that the Plus will to.


    If I can get it working on 30iB in Roboguide, that'll be enough for me to dive into the PMC side and grasp some fundamentals and prepare some stuff offline, and I would expect this could be transferred to a 30iA online using the software that way.


    Just be nice to be in a position I can use it with Roboguide without needing the Controller to test things...and yes, hopefully it is just a setting that needs teasing somewhere.


    It wouldn't be fun if things just worked out of the box...….just wish I had more hair to start with.....

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