beginner, programchoise?

  • Hey!

    Beginning to apologize for my poor English!

    Sit and read around here and wow what you can learn through these threads! But have some questions!


    Now I have just started working on a Kawasaki FS20N robot with D controller.

    Unfortunately, I do not have access to any computer software unfortunately ..

    Is it only through kawaski myself that I can get hold of it?

    So what program do you recommend that I get hold of?

    How do I get to them fastest, and what are the programs in price about?

    The idea is to edit the current program and then get more products / programs into the cell.

    Thanks in advance!

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  • Welcome to the forum...……..:beerchug:


    Go here to download AS Editors that you can use to program, modify and edit programs ONLINE.

    I have provided application and guide to assist with initial setup.

    Kawasaki Online Terminal Editors


    Usually you are supplied with KRTERM which includes:

    RS232 Communication

    Ethernet Communication

    Either protocol can be used to edit, upload, download data to the controller.


    Alternatively you could just use:

    1. KCWin32 - Which is ONLINE editor using RS232 Communication.

    2. KCWinTCP - Which is ONLINE editor using Ethernet Communication.


    I prefer to use KRTERM, as this gives both communication options.


    ** Make sure you use either NULL MODEM (RS232) or Crossover (Ethernet) for communication or communication will not work.


    Alternatively to this, you could ask Kawasaki distributor for KROSET (Kawasaki proprietary simulation application), this will allow for Robot simulation offline, creation of programs prepared to be downloaded to controller.


    I also recommend to read and use Operations and AS Language Manual to assist in programming,


    If you have any problem, just ask, there are many here at Robot Forum who can assist further.

  • Seated and read in various manuals, but really get no answer to my questions.:help:


    Can I save all programs in KRterm and then edit the programs in the computer OFFLINE and then load them into the robot or do I have to make the changes online?

    if yes how?

    Um no!

    Can I download the programs and then sit offline and look through all the programs?


    Not having read through a lot in the manuals, but want to know if this is how it is usually programmed? When I checked the programs it seems that they have about 14 programs, and then they have 1 program that "calls" to each different program or commands in these programs.

    These programs are designed that each program is 1 step in the whole process, for example

    pick up the piece

    Slip1

    purging

    etc.


    Have only worked with ladder and ABB before and it was in school almost 5 years ago so I feel somewhat confused.:icon_rolleyes:


    The thing is that the robot is in production right now, but the idea is that I will adjust the current program and then later get further details into this cell.


    Optimal would have been to get hold of KROSET, have emailed kawaski so see if and when I get an answer from there.

  • and then another question!:respect:


    When I connect KRterm to the robot, does the robot have to be switched off before? And does the robot have to be completely shut down before disconnecting the ethernet cable?


    Haha, I feel almost stupid .. The company has had this robot for probably 15 years and NO ONE wants to take it with pliers. Yes, then the manager gets to hire me, trained automation technician, 3 year high school education in automation and not been near a robot for almost 5 years.:icon_eek:


    On the first day he says "this is your first challenge, nobody wants to take it with pliers and those who have tried to give up. But this is your area of responsibility":fine:


    would have come a guy and had education with me that they hired before, which I suspect has KROSET when he would bring computer programs with him. But he is totally impossible to get hold of, and has been on the verge of 4 months to get him here. So now they told them free access to computer, internet, robot and manuals and you will see if you can solve it yourself!:fine:


    Knew it would be difficult but this is beyond normal, but has no time pressure which is lucky and may take the time I need. But then it turned out that they did not have the right manuals at home so luckily I found this forum. But with a little knacky English and half-good understanding, it takes a very long time but it goes forward.


    So be prepared to get very "stupid" questions.

    But have never worked with coding .. but think that once you get into it it will be very simple and easy to understand. but must "crack the code" (hahaha) first

  • There is no such thing as a stupid question, you can bet ANY question you ask, someone will have either asked or intend on asking it...…...so ask away......:top:


    Please be prepared:

    - To do research yourself and work and do not expect others here to always have answer in time.

    - Study Operations Manual and AS Language Manual.

    - Watch your robot in operation, pay attention to teach pendant screen during motion.

    - Maybe take video of certain point of operation, locate code in a file save and study it to compare.

    - You have lots to learn, if you are learning on the job, you need to know only when you need to know.

    - May I suggest, if you are to be the 'roboteer' of your company, I recommend some official training.


    Programs can be written with many different iterations.

    in Kawasaki there are 2 formats:

    1. BLOCK Programming

    - This is done using ONLY Teach Pendant, as it is Teach Pendant Programming.

    2. AS Language Programming

    - This is advanced level programming language, very flexible and powerful explicit to Kawasaki Robots.


    You can prepare, edit programs and controller data offline, but you will not find any Kawasaki documentation to support it as they promote:

    1. Online programming and edits.

    2. Offline programming and edits using KROSET to prepare file is correct for loading.


    You can save all data using KRTerm (Using SAVE command - see AS Language Manual for syntax)

    This provides a file which you can open in any text editor (like notepad).

    This can then be modified in text editor.

    Then downloaded to the Controller.


    Be warned, if you intend to make offline edits and download to robot, you are risking making edits/mistakes in other areas and then breaking robot if you are just starting out.


    Personally, I think it would be best for you:

    - Study SAVE and LOAD command options and make different saves online.

    - Study saved files and look at syntax and also study AS Language Manual and cross reference.

    - Then prepare a 'not used program' to test download and upload.


    Many programmers prefer to write sub modules (many separate programs), then bolt them together during commissioning like:

    .PROGRAM pg0();

    CALL init_checks

    CALL return_start

    CALL pick_part

    CALL grip_close

    CALL place_part

    CALL grip_open

    CALL return_start

    .END


    This makes it easier to modify and debug should any problems arise.

    ie

    1. SAVE/P grip_open

    2. Modify code offline and save.

    3. LOAD grip_open.pg

    4. Test and evaluate changes.

    5. SAVE alldata

  • The problem with education is that there is no one we have found except in the US. It is a costly trip to go to the US for education.

    Have searched around as a train but unfortunately there are only trainings within ABB here.

    Living in Sweden.


    tanks for the answer!

    Edited once, last by Amanda96 ().

  • Yes, understood about training costs, they can be expensive, but if the company are future proofing, they need to understand basic fundamental training for their staff should be considered going forward, especially from a personnel safety perspective.

  • Can you open the controller and take a picture what it is inside? Did you find the Ethernet port?


    Do you know how to move the robot in teach (manual) mode? Do you know how to move the robot in JOINT or BASE mode?

    I haven't connected the robot to the computer yet. Have a back up in the computer that I checked some of which I saved through the memory card and inserted into the computer.


    Yes I know how to move the robot manually in the different coordinate systems (JOINT, BASE and TOOL), move points in existing program, and have moved some existing points. But got stuck when I got to the point


    POINT newaaa1_pos1b = SHIFT (aaa1_pos1b BY 20,0,0)


    That's when I sat down and started reading even more, and realized that we didn't have all the manuals at home but found them here so now I can move on and understand a little better.

    Yes, understood about training costs, they can be expensive, but if the company are future proofing, they need to understand basic fundamental training for their staff should be considered going forward, especially from a personnel safety perspective.

    Absolutely, but we are not a huge company and only have 1 kawasaki and are used for so few things today! :smiling_face:

  • What do you want to do next? How much time do you have to study this Kawasaki robot?


    An official training course would be in Germany Kawasaki Robotics GmbH or you can try also at BILA A/S



    I want to get an understanding of HOW it is built and learn how to build programs. What some things mean such as POINT, SHIFT etc, but much is in the manual.


    According to the manager "so much time I need". They want to get more production in the cell so the idea is that I should be able to build up new products.


    I have to check it out! :smiling_face:

  • Ok, i understand. Before you start learning the robot functions, it is better to know what you want to do with the robot. For example: I would like to pick something. How should i do that one??? You can think of the steps what might robot will do.


    What kind of gripper it is mounted on the robot?

  • oh yes, thats smart! becouse read the manual from first to last do me very confused..


    Just now is it a gripper which picks aluminum parts and then grinds, and then blows and puts back on the picking table.

    was that an answer to your question? or was it completely wrong?

  • It was good. Do you know how to open and close the gripper? Try to play a little with the gripper. you can start by doing some sample programs. The first program might be a motion between two points.


    But, first try to connect the robot with your laptop and save a backup.

  • yes i know how i open and close the gripper, do new program, save and load program, set pose, och adjuste poses.

    I "play" with the robot 2 days. Now i feel i must understand how the program function..
    Ex: pose information, variabel information and so on.

    i "know" how the robot work but i dont understand how the program work.


    do you understand what i mean. I know in the teory how i build a program but i dont have the knowledge to do it in praktic.


    I have a back up saved on the computer already. I take a back up on the memorycard and load in to the computer.

  • yes, you can create the programs into a txt file then save as with the as extension. Writing a program in txt file you need to do the program structure .PROGRAM program_name and .END and not forget to have a blank space after the .END, otherwise it will not load the program.

  • Quote

    I know in the teory how i build a program but i dont have the knowledge to do it in praktic.

    This is very common.

    Most people without specific experience can read Kawasaki programs and understand them, however when it comes to creating programs, often there are ??? moments about just how to go about doing it.


    There is no 'quick fix' for this, except dedicating time on either:

    1. Live robot, creating some test programs, using different commands and experiencing what they do.

    2. Use simulator like KROSET, to self train in office, at home with coffee, beer or wine.

    3. You could also sit down with Manual with example code and break it down to understand meaning.


    Ok, so I show you how to understand the command you posted by breaking down into fundamentals:

    POINT newaaa1_pos1b = SHIFT (aaa1_pos1b BY 20,0,0)


    1. Any word that appears in UPPERCASE means it is a command or instruction.

    2. Any word that appears in lowercase means it is a variable that has been set by programmer.

    3. Any structure that includes a single '=' sign, means data is being used on the right and setting the left side data.


    So armed with the above, you can now cross reference 2 Commands in the AS Manual from above:

    1. POINT (this creates or modifies positional data, either joint angle or transformation location).

    2. SHIFT (this obtains data of transformation variable used and adds X,Y,Z values of the robot BASE to this.


    So what you have is a command that:

    1. Obtains transformation value from location variable aaa1_pos1b.

    2. Adds 20mm in the +X direction of the robot BASE

    3. Overwrites transformation value of location variable newaaa1_pos1b with calculated result of SHIFT.


    So result is this command 'reteaches' transformation location variable newaa1_pos1b with calculation result of data used in SHIFT command.


    If you see a command, cross reference with AS Manual and break it into sections to understand structure, meaning and purpose.

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