Can a Kuka KR200/1A work with CAD/CAM?

    Hello everyone!


    I recently became the proud owner of a Kuka Robot - KR200 / 1A. Unfortunately, it was only available without a control unit (KR C1). When I bought the robot, I did not know what I was going to do with it. But after some searching, I found out that you can operate a robot with CAD / CAM systems. So that sounds like a nice hobby project to me.


    Here some details of the robot:
    Brand: Kuka
    Type: KR 200 / 1A
    Serial no: 724163
    Year of construction: 1998


    Axis Motors: 1-2-3
    Brushless Servomotor
    1FK6100-8AF91-1ZZ9-Z S09
    No. E K550 0225 41 021
    3.77kW 9.50A
    Art.nr: 69-225-463


    Axis Motors: 4-5-6
    AC servomotor
    KK53Y-YYYY-017
    No.E 98F19060
    2.83kW 5.7A
    Art.nr: 69-225-464


    My question is, what is the best way (for my wallet :icon_wink:) to make this older robot work with CAD / CAM?
    Option1: Buy a KR C2-unit --> Robotmaster/Sprutcam --> Mastercam --> Autocad/Solidworks
    Option2: Buy a Hicon Controller --> Mach4 --> Mastercam --> Autocad/Solidworks
    Or does someone have other Options??


    Thanks to everyone!!!
    Greetz Dimko45

    The Hicon controller is just a breakout box for stepper motor signals. The motors on the robots are not only servos, they also have analog resolvers for feedback.
    The robot is just a bunch of metal parts and some servo motors that come out to bare wires.


    Buying a brand new, or used KRC2 controller will be a pain, since it's likely to be incompatible with the robot, because the drives need to match or exceed in parameters(power).


    I regret to inform you that you've basically shot yourself in the foot by buying just the robot.

    Hi,
    I knew it would be difficult to find a suitable controller for this. But the robot was almost for free, so I thought I can try it.


    A few questions for the specialists:
    What is the difference between a KRC2 and KRC2ed05?
    Can a KRC2 receive CAD / CAM data?


    Thanks!

    I know what CAD/CAM means my friend.
    Ik build my own cnc milling machine, 3 axis. And i want to expand it to 5 axis.
    So ... cad/cam i know.


    I just didn't know if a Krc2 could handle it. Thats why i ask.
    Because someone from Kuka Houthalen(Belgium) told me, he had seen a Kuka robot with a KRC2 unit work with Sprutcam.
    But maybe it was a KRC2ed05 type he had seen, thats why i asked here what the differences was. Sorry
    And for the record, Hicon can control sercodrives and servomotors.
    But you are right, its most used with steppermotors, i admit.

    This is a industrial robot though, not a 5 axis cnc.


    I have done some high accuracy machining with fanuc robots.


    Robot master is straight cam to process. But 40k


    Eureka sucks for 14k


    Robodk @ 3k is not a bad choice either way you need a controller.






    Sent from my SM-N950U using Tapatalk


    Nobody knows how big Your wallet is. If You own Solidworks and Autocad, Mastercam and Sprutcam it can't be that small. :icon_mrgreen:


    No KRC can handle NC programs out of the box, You need a software option from KUKA for that, again a question of Your wallet size :zwink:
    "Option1: Buy a KR C2-unit --> NC-Option from KUKA (don't know the exact name) --> Robotmaster/Sprutcam --> Mastercam --> Autocad/Solidworks"


    But You will not get happy with an old KRC1 mechanic and a newer (also outdated) KRC2, they have many incompatabilities.


    I would prefer
    Option3: Build an art object with the KR200 :biggrins:

    There's several factors in play here:


    1. The robot has to have a controller of some kind, and robot controllers are much more complex than CNC controllers, due to the different kinematics. You're basically stuck either buying a good KRC2 with compatible hardware (check with KUKA, using the serial# of your robot, to find out what's compatible), or buying something like a Siemens 840D controller and a kinematic module for the 840D matched to your controller.


    2. Robot's don't speak G-Code natively. You either have to buy an add-on module for the robot that "translates" G-Code on the fly, or use a CAM postprocessor that generates "native" robot code. Either of these options have some additional risk, in that simply outputting 5-axis-style path programs can cause issues for the robot (kinematics, again), so your CAM toolchain really should be "robot aware" -- should have the capability to import a model of the actual robot you're using and simulate its motion, so you can avoid wrist flips, elbow collisions, and other motions that articulated robots have, and even the highest-level CNC machines don't.


    3. Robots simply don't have the rigidity or accuracy of CNC machines (closed vs open kinematics, parallel vs serial kinematics, etc), so even if you can jump the software gap, you won't get CNC-grade output. Robots are designed for reach and flexibility, where CNCs are designed for rigidity and accuracy.

    Hi guys,


    Thanks for the comments!


    In the meantime I have learned a bit more about the possible solutions. It's indeed not so easy to work with an older robot.
    I'm going to contact Siemens, to ask what the possibilities are. Because I think the Kuka servomotors are products from Siemens. (Correct me if I'm wrong).
    I have already contacted Kuka, but the reaction is cold and short.
    If it is not "PlugandPlay" then it is too difficult for these guys.


    Thanks again everyone!

    Quote


    ...
    I have already contacted Kuka, but the reaction is cold and short.
    If it is not "PlugandPlay" then it is too difficult for these guys.
    ...


    Those guys have to support their products.
    The product is the robot mechanic with the appropriate controller used by professionals, not a single outdated mechanic for a project of a hobbyist.
    May be You can ask Colin Furze :uglyhammer2: https://www.youtube.com/user/colinfurze. He has amazing ideas.

    I certainly do not want to be disrespectful about the guys from Kuka, because they are very smart, but I just expected a bit more cooperation.
    But as hermann said, they are there to serve the industrial manufacturers and not the crazy hobbists with their unrealistic dreams.
    I must say they have given me some electrical diagrams that I am already very happy with.
    Thanks for the link!! I'll check it out!!!

    KUKA will cooperate with you if you want to buy their products.
    They will not cooperate with you if you want internal datasheets and a DIY tutorial.


    I have a second-hand KR3 that I was able to get free phone support for, and they did their best to help(though, admittedly, failed, but only after it went all the way up to the lead regional engineer).

    Hello.
    I have a similar question ..
    A kuka robot with krc2 how easy is to add 7th axis and what it needs to do 7 axis milling(the 7th axis is the rotary table)
    with sprutcam or powermill/hypermill or some other cam?
    A krc2 will work without teach pendant for milling?


    Also in a kuka robot like this posted kr200 can servo motors for 4/5/6 changed with other with the same flange & shaft diameter ?
    Are these servos mounted to some gear/belt ?

    Quote


    ..
    A krc2 will work without teach pendant for milling?


    No, a KRC2 doesn't work at all without KCP.

    Quote

    ..
    Also in a kuka robot like this posted kr200 can servo motors for 4/5/6 changed with other with the same flange & shaft diameter ?


    You can change it, but the parameters for the servo amplifiers have to be adjusted. May be it is impossible if they are incompatible.


    Quote


    ..
    Are these servos mounted to some gear/belt ?


    Yes of course.

    How much costs a used krc2 teach pendant ?
    If teach pendant exists is easy to add 7th axis to do milling with rotary table or need additional software/module except 7th servo&drive?
    For marble milling what payload is adequate ? 150kg 200kg 220kg 250kg 300kg ?
    krc2 has win xp or win98?
    Is there any photo to see how shaft for motors 4/5/6 axis are mounted to the gear/belt ?

    Edited once, last by javaman ().

    KCP cost? EBay. But be aware, there are different generations and versions of KCP, so you need to be careful about finding one that's compatible with your KRC2.


    Adding a 7th axis to a KRC2 is fairly simple, and well documented.


    Payload... the heavier the robot payload, the stronger and more rigid the robot will be. However, your ability to mill hard materials, like marble, will be limited, simply b/c robots are not nearly as rigid as gantry-style machine tools.


    Early KRC2 has Win95, later versions have WinXP.


    Modifying the motors on the robot is not a good idea, unless you really know what you are doing. Even then, the KRC is designed to "fight back" against that kind of thing, b/c most of the time, changes to those parameters are accidental, by people who don't know what they're doing.


    On most KRs of that generation, the three wrist motors are mounted to the back of the A3 casting. All three motors mate to splined drive shafts that pass down the length of the A3 link until they reach A4. The A4 driveshaft integrates to the A4 gearing at this point. A5 and A6 shafts drive concentric gearing that pass through A4 and drive belt&gear combinations in the wrist.
    https://youtu.be/iRKDfknqtbc

    That is hard to tell from a picture alone, for instance KR150/KR210 and i think even the KR350 from the outside look the same the only difference is the motors and the counterbalance. Also to me the wrist could also be a non-standard wrist, or it is just painted for aesthetic purposes.

    Every problem has a solution, that isn't the problem. The problem is the solution.

    Here are some more photos.
    What cad-cam need to be done a work like this except a 7 axis robot (7 axis is the rotary table)?
    Can a standard kuka for example kr210 with krc2 do this job ?

    Quote from Leon


    That is hard to tell from a picture alone, for instance KR150/KR210 and i think even the KR350 from the outside look the same the only difference is the motors and the counterbalance. Also to me the wrist could also be a non-standard wrist, or it is just painted for aesthetic purposes.


    Definitely not a KR350, that looks much different physically.
    Since I don't think there's room for a counterweight under that cover that's occluding the A4-A6 motors, I'm going to guess it's a KR210, rather than a KR270. But that's only a guess.

Advertising from our partners