Kawasaki UX150 A55 Help required to return to life

    Dear Kwakisaki,

    First I do not know where is CR2 but i have notice when power on only CR1 respone and keep on/off and CR3 do nothing
    When power on the very Big unit behind the door i belive it is Block A Block B which you mentioned, all the fan of BlockA and Block B are turn on/off with CR1 relay signal.
    Tomorrow i will trace those 4 wires as your picture back to the big unit behind door to see where it connect. I will attach picture.
    Thank you very much,
    Trung

    Edited once, last by Nzhuhu (August 3, 2018 at 3:31 PM).

    See attached for location of CR2.

    Ok, so if you only think CR1 is coming on and off and CR3 is doing nothing.
    - According to circuit, CR1 coil is controlled from CR2 N.O, so CR2 is likely to also be going on and off too.
    - CR1 contacts also power to fans and also power to wire P11.
    - Wire P11 connects to BXCN5B.
    - I am pretty certain BXCN5B also share connections to BXCN5A.
    - BXCN5A supplies the CRx relays.
    - These supplies come from AVR into 1BP Board.

    I think you need to take some voltage measurements.
    - Maybe also pull out CR1 (for temp test).
    - Check CR2
    - Check AVR supply input and output stability.
    - Check stable voltage into Controller - Balanced 3 phase, could have phase missing.

    Dear Kwakisaki,

    Here I quoted your instruction and the Result:

    1. Can you see if these connections (see attached) exist on Power Block B and if there are wires on connectors. There are Connection on both Power Block A and Power Block B marking PBB-CN7, PBB-CN8. Traced them and I got a Link from X11 Y11 from CR1 to PBB-CN7, PBB-CN8 can not get a Link unfortunately.
    2. Is there stable voltage on Transformer wires X10 and Y10 whilst Controller is restarting. Very Stable at 97vac
    3. Is there stable voltage on Transformer wires X20 and Y20 whilst Controller is restarting. Very Stable at 24.8vac
    4. Are CR1, CR2 or CR3 turning on/off - if so, which ones. CR2 active first then CR2, CR3 doing nothing. Cycle On/Off for CR2 --->CR1 only.

    - Maybe also pull out CR1 (for temp test). Removed CR1
    - Check CR2. CR2 and CR3 still connect. CR2 cycle On/Off for almost 2mins then it keep ON.
    - Check AVR supply input and output stability. AVR stable at 98vac in and 24.7vdc Out.
    - Check stable voltage into Controller - Balanced 3 phase, could have phase missing. All 3 phase from Main power are stable at 379vac.

    Here is the weird thing, after measurement suddenly the CR1, CR2 are holding the contact for almost 1min, the Screen is on with the warning and after approximate 1min the Screen is restart as the CR1 CR2 doing their restart Cycle. Please have a look at attach picture. I remembered, i turn all 3 CB off, and turn on 1 CB after CB then that weird thing happen

    I switched CR2, still having the same problem. Found badly broken fan under Power Block A + B, removed them, removed X11 Y11 ( or 10 i do not remember ) which supply power to all the Door Fan. The Problem Still exit.

    Please NOTICE, CR1 - CR2 doing the restart so the Screen and the Teach Pendant doing the restart also.
    Just to be sure the DB1 with X21 top left, Y21 bottom left, P20 top right, N20 bottom right. Does it a part of the problem ?

    PS: On Page 82 they mention of Breaker NFB since our Controler do not have it, i wonder what thing replace it.

    I must commend you for your perseverance with this, for someone who is not electrical, you certainly have the skills...... :top:

    Ok, so we have some progress......excellent.....wont be long now before Mrs Kawasaki is spinning her joints for us.

    Response to yours:
    - Power Block A and Power Block B should have CN7 connected with 100vac from CR1 N.O Contact - so that's good.
    - Power Block A and Power Block B should have CN8 connected with BX CN1 (I think lower voltage - but I would not concern with CN8 for now).
    - Your incoming supplies are good and stable that removes any supply incoming issues - Ok, so we're into the Controller now.
    - I think CR3 may stay off anyway until we ask for motor power, so not concern too much with that at the moment
    - CR1 and CR2 are cycling then.

    Faulty fan will not help, but as long as it's removed, wont cause any further issues.

    If you look at drawing, CR1 contacts supply voltage to Display (PDU), so this will go on and off.

    Ok, so if you can:
    1. Check if 1BP LED'S also going on/off.
    2. DB1 is rectifier for DC supply to 1BP board for Brake circuits etc - Could you measure this voltage - is DC.
    3. Can you disconnect Robot Harnesses too (during test) - do not worry about errors (I assume you have these also connected).
    4. Can you tell what the cable is ident (see attached)
    5. AVR1 in card rack could have capacitor charge up issue or overload, you could replace with yours to test.

    Dear Kwakisaki,

    I am very please for your commend. I do not know where and when i had learn it, maybe when I am helping some guys doing electric maintenance. I am just helping around so some guys they will not hesitate to tell me how to check how to use Digital Multimeter ( well i have to google translate from VietNamese language to English and compare picture too ) LOL.

    1. Check if 1BP LED'S also going on/off. Yes Clearly 100% sure I see 1BP's Led are on off and 1AE 9ZA's Led are on off too i think.
    2. DB1 is rectifier for DC supply to 1BP board for Brake circuits etc - Could you measure this voltage - is DC. I will check tomorrow or maybe sunday ( right now is 8pm Saturday Night )
    3. Can you disconnect Robot Harnesses too (during test) - do not worry about errors (I assume you have these also connected). For all the Test from the beginning of this Thread, the Controller Box stand alone no connect to Robot Arm, unless Controller is Ready.
    4. Can you tell what the cable is ident (see attached). The Cable is J8 or J9, I will confirm it soon.
    5. AVR1 in card rack could have capacitor charge up issue or overload, you could replace with yours to test. Please help me by Mark it with circle or anything so i can identify what is AVR1.

    Thank you very much !!! Please enjoy your Lovely Weekend.
    Trung

    Edited once, last by Nzhuhu (August 4, 2018 at 3:15 PM).

    Heehee......Good man, you seek assistance which is good, but remember, be safe first, if not sure ask.... :top:

    Ok, so 1BP Led's also on/off too and always arm disconnect, excellent.
    - I think you try your AVR1 in this unit and see what result is.
    - You will not cause any issues by removing/swapping for test, so don't worry - plug and play, Always turn Controllers OFF always when changing boards
    - See attached for AVR1, this you can swap for test.
    - Yes, I think cable is CN8 or CN9, I just wanted to confirm.

    Have good evening and see if you can measure voltage and test swap AVR1 tomorrow.
    Enjoy the weekend too.

    Dear Kwakisaki,

    How was your weekend ? Please do not tell me you were working on my case.

    First - I swaped the AVR1 ---> Turned the Power on nothing up ! Spotted the AVR 24vdc ( I have circle the Device in picture ) has no Green Led on.....BUMPED me !
    Swapped that AVR ----> Green LED is on ----> CR1, CR2 restart cycle ----> Mesurement the DB1 : X21, Y21 Red Line input stable 24.8vac and P20,N20 Blue Line output stable 21,2vdc.
    Dead End Road for me ----> Removed all the Cards again, see 1BP having JP1 ( do not know what to do so let it stay ), ZR board removed and put back secure all the Jack connection again.
    Then WAH LA..... SCREEN is ON without Restart got the screen shoot.
    1 Cable at Block A, Block B is J9.
    1 Cable's label J5 i do not know what to do.
    Anyway, let both of them open the screen still on.

    Second - Turned it off, swap the AVR1 Original back to it and Wah la.....Screen is on again with teach pendant.
    Had some error, cleared them all but Error 509 still exit.

    Conclusion: AVR 24vdc should be the problem ( luckily it dead at right time so it should be not a trouble anymore )
    ZR Card or BP Card or all the Cards were not surely contact with BX or any Jack Connection was not secure. But I am surely they should be good because I found the little sticker on AVR1 mention 2011 year, I suppose that mean this Controller Box been check on 2011. I think Me is the mistake, at the beginning there was no Link between EpCom-EpOff-EpOn so nothing happen - then I decided to remove all the card for pictures. Yes I might not secure the Card when putting them back.

    We did success to bring the Screen on for more inspection but still not 100% what cause the problem.
    Well a Happy Day for me atleast !!

    Thank you Kwakisaki,
    Trung

    PS: Extra Badly Damage Fan under Power Block A,B picture

    Lol, I always have busy weekend, at moment I am building a mini servo gripper using Arduino and making with 3D Printer, but many problems with my measurements.....not so good.

    Hmmmm.....ok you do a lot and I see some positive results at least.
    - You'll be a Kawasaki Robotics Service Engineer soon for A55 Controller in Vietnam Province, start your own business perhaps?


    J5 cable is labelled in manual for C/F Fan (not too sure where this is located, but Japanese only give you correct length of wire, so I expect if unconnected, then location of fan is close by/been removed/not fitted as it is an option).
    - I think J9 and J5 do not worry (check in yours if the same exist/unconnected).

    Yes, fan damaged quite bad, but easily replaced I think.

    OK, so I see result seem to be based around AVR (So let's check this item more accurately).
    - So can you remove P10 and N10 cables from AVR (make note of locations) and power up again.
    - Measure Output on AVR where P10 and N10 were connected to.
    - This voltage must be at least 23.5 Vdc (no lower, if lower, then adjust needed on potentiometer to increase to max 24.5vdc).
    - Then connect P10 and N10 again and power up.
    - Measure voltage again, if this voltage has dropped, then possible external overload is causing AVR to reduce output, or possible faulty AVR.
    - If voltage ok, then maybe AVR ok......but will puzzle me......
    - It is possible you may not have located cards correctly, but for now as it is on.....we take result and have beers.... :beerchug:

    Ok, so error messages plenty, but you managed to clear all but Error -590 (I never seen this before).
    - So you definitely cannot clear this error.
    - Please check connections in attached image 1DF connections behind Plasma Panel and also status of LED's.
    - Also check connections on front of 9ZA board (CN5) are secure, comms between 9ZA and 1DF may have issues here (This is a guess).

    There is progress though........if you can clear error, and rezero, possibile moving test next.......good work my friend...... :bravo:

    Dear Kwakisaki,

    Wow, you are arduino fan. I like arduino but since it open source or something, i am quite feel disecure. Anyway you were enjoy your weekend is a lovely thing i like to hear. Luckily you have your own machine so you can redo it, one time i was bring some steel material to CnC shop for mill and leathe. They did it beautiful but just 1 slight difference, inside diameter 1millimiter bigger than my draw. " Why ? Oh i lost your page so i use normal tube to mesurement " yeah normal water tube huh. But i still have to pay and bring my stuff back. Then make alot of call, find address and go to another shop...... the 4th shop did it good. It took alots of effort just to do some DIY stuff.

    Back to my friend's controller, the dead AVR produce no Vdc out lol.
    I did nothing on clear error, just pressed Clear button lol.
    I will update more process later.
    I dont think i will doing any business with robot service. In my country machinery business is Hit and Run business. I do not see much owner 100% commit to it.

    Dear Kwakisaki,

    Updated on my process....let start from the beginning.
    Turn on the Controller Box Alone ---> On/Off Cycle Again ---> Swap that AVR1 ( original ) with other ---> Controller Box On immediately on first try ---> Having Error -590....Code is e2 and e0

    ---> Turn it off ---> Remove all the Card and put them back, making sure having good connect with BX Board and adjust AVR Vdc out at 24.5vdc as your requested ---> Turn on, error Motor Hot, 600 Motor Power Off

    ---> Turn off, making link between Ep-EMG and EpCom as you taught me before ---> Connect all 3 cable with my Robot Arm ---> Turn on, clear all Error, press Power Motor, restart

    ---> Turn on again, screen on with all information, let it wait for 30second then clear Error ---> Press Power Motor, accepted ---> Turn on Teach Pendant ---> Hold Deadman ---> Robot Arm move as wanted.

    Conclusion : 2 units provide Vdc are dead and causing short Circuit are AVR and AVR1 maybe include new found Idle Fans on top of Board Case Unit
    Since the age of controller box so all the connection between all boards with BX Board are not really fit each other ( old metal, expand or wihte rust )so should have to find a way to put them back and making sure good connect by pulling it out lightly to test the Bond Strength.
    Because of the age of all Power Unit include Transformer. Should or Must have to wait atleast 30second start from the Screen is Loaded for all the Power Provide Unit to get stabled.

    Hopefully tomorrow it will just turn on normally then we can happy with it. I am not sure you know about the 4 fan on top of Board Case Please see picture. Those fans are connecting with J5 cable, they are IDLE Power in but can not move so make alot of heat. I disconnect the J5 but without those Fan will AVR1 getting too Hot ? I let the Controller Box run more than 30mins without those 4 Fan, the AVR getting under 50 Celcius Degree, at that time only Air Kicker Unit running. It look quite hard for me to remove those Fan, screws secure those Fan are hidden on top of the Case and that case having 4 screws secure to the back panel of controller box about 40cm deep to reach it. Maybe an Easy way is remove AD controller Screen then remove top Panel by Drilling those Rivet Nut then secure it back with Bolt and Nut.

    I really need your help to identify Encoder Line Colours so I can soldering them directly because it broken please see picture. In the picture that Male Jack is broken ( hopefully not damage the Encoder ) and Female Jack is badly damage. My friend's robot arm need alots of thing to do compare to mine.... The Encoder having 14 wire out and model of Ac Servo Motor is MFA420FY0BS

    Thank you very much Kwakisaki,
    Trung

    Heehee......I'm getting confused again......

    A and AD Controller have very quick boot up period - from memory, I think no longer than 1min from isolator on, to be running.
    This keeps sounding to me that the problem is capacitors inside either or both AVR units as you describe after period of time, system appear stable.

    Capacitor provide charge for circuit, if age is old (just like me), capacitor become like resistor and take longer time to charge if charge up is even possible.
    - Cannot charge to full voltage/full current.
    - Result in reduced output volts/current.
    - External equipment current demand exceed capability of power supply, so power supply overload, go into current limit and shutdown for protection and restart.

    I don't think the removal of boards etc is causing restart issues.....I think this could just be age issue.....(just like me and my creaking joints.....heehee).

    I would inspect AVR and AVR1 for age issue (capacitor bulge/out of shape), obtain replacement capacitors and replace and retry.

    Does your friends controller be stable when/if you use your AVR and AVR1?
    - If so then, before power up tomorrow, replace your friends AVR and AVR1 for yours.
    - So everything cold and if power up and stable first time, then definite AVR/AVR1 problem

    Oh yes......C/F......stand for Card File (I should have know this) = Card Rack which contain AVR1,9ZA etc...... :top:
    These fans should run all time from power up.
    - J5 cable fed from CR1 N.O Contacts after power on.
    - If CR1 on, C/F Fans should be on.

    Reference Motor and Encoder connections, the recent troubleshooting manual I sent does not contain the motor model your referring to.
    However, if you check the AD_Electrical_Maintenance.pdf I sent you (the one with red color band on front cover).
    - Section 7 and 7.6.4, this contains list of motors and that model is there.
    - Appendix Section A and A.6.5 shows encoder pinout and A.6.6 shows motor connector pinout.

    This is all the information I have found for that motor model no, I hope this helps with damaged connector.

    Dear Kwakisaki,

    Yes i did replace my AVR and AVR1 for his controller to test. He might going to the junk yard to buy the spare controller box so i can replace for him. Definately his AVR and AVR1 are causing the trouble, as i have manage to set correct the Vdc out put on AVR to 24.5vdc, i wonder is there an easy way to check out put on AVR1 so we can recorrect.

    So what are you suggest on those 4 IDLE Fans? Remove the Card File, take quite sometime and might be miss or damage the boards due to my low skill. Or just open up the top cover of the controller box?

    With damage connector, i think i will open the good working condition connector and copy it. Hope fullly ị will work.
    I see your email mention 69 maybe i am only 14yrs younger than you. That mean 4 beers for you and 1 for me.

    Thank you very much Kwakisaki,
    Trung

    PS: I have an Idea, it should work on all our controller when need to replace all Power Supply. For AVR1, I need to find the Pin where all VDC coming out and in to BX, remove the Jack ( male or female ) which connect to BX from AVR1. Because I have already know what pin suppy what vdc so I will connect that Jack to BX and let it be there forever, soldering cable to the back of that Jack, those cable will connect to 2 invidual brand new VDC power supply which are 5v and 12v.

    Edited once, last by Nzhuhu (August 8, 2018 at 5:45 AM).

    Me 69...not that old, still have many years before that number is reached..... :ts:
    - But I stll have 4 beers, thank you... :party2:

    Yes, AVR's seems to me to be root of problems, if it is capacitor problem, maybe you have electronics repair shop to replace, or you could replace yourself with your new found skills?

    I am not sure about fan replacement (not familiar with access panels).
    - Plasma Unit is optional display, so I think removal of unit give access from the top of controller for easy removal.
    - Also possible to remove complete Card Rack Chassis I think, but may also be difficult.
    - Yes, if fans have rivet to secure, would need to drill out to replace.

    For AVR1 adjustment in Card rack, no need to find pins on BX, test pins already available on 9ZA board (top of board - small ring pins).
    - See attached (Page 4-49 from manual).
    - Attach DVM (DC Measure with respect to GND) and adjust potentiometer for each power rail.

    Dear Kwakisaki,

    If you read my mention of Email so you will figure it out what I meant but let it be Top Secret !!
    And yes, you are having so much passion than me, you can read all the manual which you sent to me and pointed out what I need to read....I have notice those Ring Pin but do not add it up !! Anyway I still have to find the Pin out on AVR1 ( 15 pins ), write it down - keep it for later use incase AVR1 dead I will process with my New Idea is using 2 inviduals Vdc power supply 5v and 12v. I will replace the Fan by open top panel. Today i am not working with Robot, tomorrow will be back lol.

    Thank you very much Kwakisaki,
    Trung

    Ps: I have send you an PM message, please have a look.

    Edited once, last by Nzhuhu (August 8, 2018 at 10:17 AM).

    Dear Kwakisaki,

    I meant, i knew that ring pin on ZA board. I saw it, touch it and took photo of it but my mind did not think it throught, did not link it with AVR1. So when you taught me where and how to mesurement the vdc from ZA board, my mind just clear out. Sometime i can not make clear explain with English, please exucse me for it.

    Please do enjoy your evenning, thank you very much.
    Trung

    Dear Kwakisaki,
    I have soldering the encoder cable on JT5 motor. But still having error 1521 saying miss match ABS INC on Jt5 or positioncoder data abnormal Jt5. Whenever i move Jt1, Jt2 will not occur, Jt3 sometime occur that problem of Jt5, moving Jt4, Jt5, Jt6 100% occur problem on Jt5.
    I will have to think throughly tonight about this problem.

    Have a good weekend Kwakisaki,
    Trung

    Edited once, last by Nzhuhu (August 11, 2018 at 11:19 AM).

    Dear Kwakisaki,

    First of all, please do have a look at 90213-1005DEA U Series page 67 and move on, maybe the Matching Marks is miss coincide. I will making sure checking it tomorrow( Monday ).

    Second please have a look at AD_Electrical Maintenance, Page 7-51 you can see the picture mention 2 Circuit Boards inside Encoder. Inside my Encoder R81 does have 2 Boards, top Boards contain 10 pins with 10 wires out, under board contain 5 pins with 4 wires out ( as I can read on the under board, it does mark B-minus but no connection or wiring out), i will mark them as Under Board on the compare Chart.

    Please do have a look at Compare Chart between AD_Electrical Maintenance page A-32 with actual mark and name on 2 boards of my encoder. You can see some minor differrence:
    1. BT- or B- on under board is no pin out on the board even have mark on the board.
    2. The 2 pins B-R using 0V, i make a mistake on it, i only connect 0V to B and leave R open.
    3. On Troubleshoot showing 16 pins out, but there are only 14 lines from 2 boards encoder.
    Here is my list to do on Monday:
    Making sure the Coincide is correct.
    Soldering another Line from R Pin and Link it with 0V line B pin.
    I do not know how to fix that BT- or B- on under board because there is a hole next to B- mark but no soldering or wire, also there are only 14 line and all been use.

    Please do not hesitate to teach me, I am very please to learn from you.

    Thank you very much Kwakisaki,
    Trung

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