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Help with Spline Motion

  • therobotman
  • June 15, 2018 at 7:01 PM
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  • therobotman
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    • June 15, 2018 at 7:01 PM
    • #1

    I am relatively new to KUKA Robots and I am experimenting with a spline motion to get a nice smooth motion of the robot similar to movement of a human arm. I tried creating a small program with a couple of points, but when I try to execute the spline block, I get command velocity exceeded on A4 even though when I set both points (touched them up), I did not even adjust A4 at all. Do you know how I can solve this issue?

    Please see attached photo.

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  • Fubini
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    • June 15, 2018 at 7:14 PM
    • #2

    Sounds like a singularity issue. Try to avoid A5 close to zero.

    Fubini

  • therobotman
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    • June 15, 2018 at 7:22 PM
    • #3

    So I adjusted axis 5, and tried to run it, but now it gives me an error that "BCO-motion is executed as LIN". How do I fix that?

  • Fubini
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    • June 15, 2018 at 7:43 PM
    • #4

    There is nothing to fix. This is normal system behaviour when doing a bco motion on a spline. You probably did a touch up, which triggers a bco move. Reset the program and run from the beginning.

    Fubini

  • therobotman
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    • June 15, 2018 at 7:58 PM
    • #5

    I reset the program and ran it from the beginning and I get the same error where command velocity exceeded A4. Like the robot barely moves and then the brakes click. It doesn't even get to the first point. What do I do?

  • Fubini
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    • June 15, 2018 at 8:14 PM
    • #6

    You could reduce your velocities.

    Also you should read the read first post and try to find documentation. After careful studying try to be much more precise in your problem description.

    And most important try to get at least basic KUKA training. This forum can not be a substitute for that.

    Fubini

  • therobotman
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    • June 15, 2018 at 8:29 PM
    • #7

    Reduce velocities of the spline motion? Which documentation would you recommend reading? I can't find any documentation where it shows step by step how to program a spline motion.

  • Fubini
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    • June 15, 2018 at 8:37 PM
    • #8

    Usually it is covered in the programming manual or in more advanced detail in the system integrators manuals.

    Fubini

  • therobotman
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    • June 15, 2018 at 9:34 PM
    • #9

    Ah, so the spline motion is for applications like welding with points close to one another, correct? It is not designed for large wide smooth motions.

  • panic mode
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    • June 16, 2018 at 3:52 AM
    • #10

    where do you draw your conclusions from?

    1) read pinned topic: READ FIRST...

    2) if you have an issue with robot, post question in the correct forum section... do NOT contact me directly

    3) read 1 and 2

  • therobotman
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    • June 16, 2018 at 3:55 AM
    • #11

    Programming 1 Training Documentation. Am I wrong?

  • dangermrrobinson
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    • June 16, 2018 at 4:45 PM
    • #12

    I would try the suggestions above by reducing your velocity during certain moves. My experience, every time I program something in Kuka that has more of a majestic curve moves, it takes more time trying to figure out jerk, velocity, etc and always prone to errors. That’s where I move to a graphical interface where I can see the move, manipulate curves and so on. Have you ever heard of Mimic? Check it out...mimicformaya.com

  • therobotman
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    • June 16, 2018 at 7:16 PM
    • #13

    You are suggesting to reduce the velocity of the spline block? Would you say that the spline motion is ideal for small complex paths that need to be very accurate such as welds, etc.?

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    SkyeFire
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    • June 16, 2018 at 7:49 PM
    • #14

    Spot welds, or seam welds? Two very different things. "More accurate" is entirely a matter of definition, as well. In absolute terms, Spline motion and "classic" motion are equally accurate and repeatable, but the devil is in the details.

    Put very (overly?) simply, Spline motion approximates the motion between points, while "classic" motion approximates motion at/near points.

    Spline motion was created to address a shortcoming in "classic" robot motion for continuous-path operations -- basically, that "classic" motion achieved path smoothing by passing near points, but not explicitly through them. So if the points A,B,C represented a sharp 90-deg corner, and B was approximated, the TCP would "cut the corner" past B while executing the sequence A->B->C.

    So, a path for laying down a line of adhesive on a specific, non-straight path, would be hand-taught using trial and error, teaching points "off path" and adjusting their approximation radii until the adhesive was laid down where the programmer wanted it. This worked well enough for decades, but was expensive in terms of man-hours. It was also very hostile to CAD-to-path programming styles.

    Spline motion uses a completely different model for path smoothing, one that is much more computationally intensive. In general terms, it pre-calculates a smooth path that passes through every point in the Spline block, and this path ideally maintains a constant TCP velocity throughout. One potential drawback is that multiple points too close together can create very odd motions between them -- the calculated motions are less constrained, and therefor less predictable. Spline motions can also encounter additional mathematical singularities that "classic" motions generally aren't bothered with.

  • therobotman
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    • June 16, 2018 at 10:20 PM
    • #15

    SkyeFire I guess I meant to say seam welds, not spot welds. I originally thought that spline motion would be ideal to move a KUKA Robot arm very smoothly in a human arm motion, but it seems like PTP motion would be ideal for that. Would you say that is a correct assessment?

  • panic mode
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    • June 17, 2018 at 2:38 AM
    • #16

    all of motion instructions are ideal for something and poor for something else.
    spline is suited for complex smooth curves.

    1) read pinned topic: READ FIRST...

    2) if you have an issue with robot, post question in the correct forum section... do NOT contact me directly

    3) read 1 and 2

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    SkyeFire
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    • June 17, 2018 at 5:00 PM
    • #17

    PTP motion is the robot's most "natural" motion. But that's b/c it only cares about the start and end positions of the motion, and does little to regulate the "in between" motion. That is, if you make a PTP move from P1 to P2, the robot calculates how much each axis must rotate to get to P2, adjusts each axis's speed so that all 6 axes will start and stop at the same time, and then executes that motion. What space the arm passes through en route is not measured or controlled. As such, the path the TCP traces through space is not controlled or predictable. So, depending on S&T, singularity conditions or wind-up, it's possible to have two points 1 inch apart that will cause the wrist to completely flip over moving between them with a PTP motion.

    For any type of "seam" motion, you need interpolated motions (LIN, CIRC, Spline), or a great number of closely-spaced PTP motions. Technically, any interpolated motion is made up of a large number of PTP motions spaced only a few microns apart, handled at the motion-planner level, but writing an application-level program that way is self-defeating.

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