My new used kuka KR200L170 comp

  • using only one side is ok for up to 32A. 48 and 64A KSDs require both outputs wired.
    tuneup requires use of oscilloscope. guesswork will not do.
    maybe compare with MADA of something else that works well and uses large motor to get least initial values right (maybe KL or KP)

    1) read pinned topic: READ FIRST...

    2) if you have an issue with robot, post question in the correct forum section... do NOT contact me directly

    3) read 1 and 2


  • SKF?


    Your description is unclear. Was the motor able to turn when the drive shaft was not connected to the rotary table?


    Panic is correct, you need to run an O-Scope trace of the motor commanded and actual position, velocity, and current.

  • Skf = bearing
    Yess, when the motor is out of shaft it is all ok.



    Enviado do meu SM-G930F através do Tapatalk

    KR200L170 with rotary table Ruckle PKT1200

  • Fist of all verify the brake of servo motor has been released.
    It needs about 27V to supplied to brake to release.


    After that need pid tuning ( https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/PID_controller )
    but how an oscilloscope will help with tuning?
    Needs software that shows commanded position actual position following error etc
    to make system critically damped.
    One rough approach is to tube servo motor "by ear" by hearing the noise produce..


    Also because there is high degree mechanical reduction this must defined somewhere
    in kuka software the reducing ratio

    Edited once, last by javaman ().

  • Hi,
    The brake release.
    The motor without been connected to rotary table run fine and i already tunned the motor by ear. I noticed the noise with high and low values and put a medium value with no noise.
    The osciloscope i already see in kuka menu but i dont try to use either have seen video of that.
    I think the problem is the motor doesnt have enought torque to run the rotary table. It is a very big table.

    KR200L170 with rotary table Ruckle PKT1200

  • Oscilloscope is a built into KSS (so called trace tool).
    To tune axis one can create program that loops axis between two points. Axis uses two cascaded PI loops. First one need to tune speed controller, then position controller, then measure other parameters like rise time, stop time etc.

    1) read pinned topic: READ FIRST...

    2) if you have an issue with robot, post question in the correct forum section... do NOT contact me directly

    3) read 1 and 2


  • Oscilloscope is a built into KSS (so called trace tool).
    To tune axis one can create program that loops axis between two points. Axis uses two cascaded PI loops. First one need to tune speed controller, then position controller, then measure other parameters like rise time, stop time etc.


    Ok this virtual oscilloscope software i was think real oscilloscope...
    Yes if there is this software in kss you must use this.


    What power/rpm servo you use for rotary table ?

  • Hello again,
    Thank you.


    The motor that i have chosen is the biggest that i found:
    0000119767 4.2kw


    my $RAT_MOT_AX[7]={N 420,D 1} is already calibrated. 90º of real turn is 90º of axis position in controler.


    I try at very low speed and very high speed and same result.


    When i put the last bearing the error motor blocked is at the same time that i click to move. The motor doens't start to move.


    My machine data:

    KR200L170 with rotary table Ruckle PKT1200


  • If everything works until the last bearing is installed, that strongly suggests a mechanical binding issue.


    Thank you.
    I dismantled the worm and my employee had made a mistake in assembling the worm.
    He mounted a washer in the wrong place that was holding the worm.
    I mounted the shaft with the washer in the correct position and behold, I can already move the reel with a finger even with a 3-ton stone on the table.
    Tomorow i will mount the motor and see if is everything ok.
    How can i tune with osciloscope ? I tried to produce graph in the osciloscope menu but without success.
    There are some type of manual to tune ?


    Thank you

    KR200L170 with rotary table Ruckle PKT1200

  • It's in the manual. I've attached an excerpt.


    If the axis does not operate smoothly ('bouncing' at the start/stop of motions, extremely slow accel/decel), the O-Scope is used to trace the servo behavior. The G_VEL_ and I_VEL_ values for that axis need to be tuned as the P and I factors of a PID loop, respectively. Usually by reducing both to very small values, slowly increasing G_VEL_ until the axis begins to oscillate, then backing it off and then increasing I_VEL_ gradually.

  • Motor is only reaching 20% or so of the rated speed. Current is under 4A which is nothing. If that is load and speed at which you intend to operate, this is good.

    1) read pinned topic: READ FIRST...

    2) if you have an issue with robot, post question in the correct forum section... do NOT contact me directly

    3) read 1 and 2

  • Ideally, for tuning the PI gains, you would want to have the Commanded and Actual positions in the Trace. Positional traces, in my experience, are more sensitive than Velocity traces, especially at the start/end of motions. You particularly want to look for any overshoot and "ringing" in the positional trace when the axis is attempting to come to a stop.


    http://support.motioneng.com/d…tuning/pid_overdamped.htm


    But yes, your Velocity traces look quite good -- if you had any serious PI gain issues that needed tuning, I would expect to see more divergence between the Commanded and Actual.


    But, as Panic says, to be sure, you need to repeat this Trace while pushing the axis at your intended highest speed&load conditions -- settings that work perfectly at low speeds may start to fail at higher speeds. Ideally, set up the trace and then run a test motion in Automatic, at 100% speed.

  • Hi again.

    So many time elapsed searching for a dedicated spindle for my robot, last year i am with one borrowed.

    Finaly i got one and i am trying to figure out to control the motor with the vfd.

    I configure the beckoff module, i can set the VFD to run and set the RPM i want.

    Thank you all for that. i read a lots of posts in this forum.

    The problem is when i run my milling program in the start of program i set OUT[9]=true.

    But when i press emergency stop the motor doesn't stop. the output is still active.

    I already read that i can work with submit interpreter (plc user) and with interrupts.


    What i need is:

    1. if robot error when program is running the motor / water need to stop.

    2. when clear the robot error and continue the milling program the motor need to start to work again and open water (only one intruction to set out true in the beggining of the src)

    3. if water fail / motor temperature / VFD fail / or some IN[] = true set message and pause robot, better change the $OV_PRO ? $MOVE_ENABLE ? or $DRIVES_OFF ?


    If you can give me some guidance to begin working i aprreciate.

    KR200L170 with rotary table Ruckle PKT1200

  • read pinned topic READ FIRST

    it will tell you many things including key manuals and where to find them.


    then you can check System Variable manual to see what variable corresponds to Emergency Stop (it is $ALARM_STOP)

    you can use that to either backup/restore output value or to create intermediate value and control the output based on that.


    for example in your program, instead of


    $OUT[34] = TRUE ; water pump


    you can do something like

    $OUT[834] = TRUE ; water pump "as programmed"


    and then in SPS add:

    $OUT[34] = $ALARM_STOP AND $OUT[834]; water pump


    also in SPS you could add


    IF (WaterFail OR ... OR ... OR ... ) THEN

    $OV_PRO=0

    ENDIF

    1) read pinned topic: READ FIRST...

    2) if you have an issue with robot, post question in the correct forum section... do NOT contact me directly

    3) read 1 and 2

  • Hi,

    Thank you panic for correct guidance. It makes sense now. I have to try it.


    I am trying to configure the sps and strange thing appen already three or four times.


    The light from the KCP goes to 40% or 50% and errors appear:

    310 Safety circuit for drives not ready

    328 KCP connection error Whatchdog_error

    364 Unknown Operation Mode (?)

    And the softkeys stop working.


    Already dissassemble the X19 cable, verify every one for continuity, is good.


    If i let the robot off for some time, the KCP boot good and i can do everything with the robot.

    Then alone the light from the KCP LCD goes 50 or 40% off and errors appear / softkeys stop working.


    May be the KCP LCD ? batteries ? DSE board ? the KCP itself ? only the KCP membrane ?

    I dont have spare parts to try.

    Any toughts ?

    Thank you.

  • maybe.. could be faulty hardware, like short in the cable (you only checked for continuity, not for absence of it), safety circuit power problem (or maybe result of one of connected devices experiencing excessive current draw) etc. so maybe check if fuses are correct values.


    but if i may... i don't mean to be rude, but this is not the optimal format. please try to start separate topic, and choose topic name that is good description of the problem so when someone else tries to look through existing posts for same problem, they have a better chance to find it. this topics sounds more like description of an unboxing review rather than discussion to resolve some problem. and so far it has already covered bunch of different issues, from MADA, servo drives, DeviceNet, programming, SPS, KCP etc.


    when someone has problem with DeviceNet, they want to look for topics related to DeviceNet.

    When someone has problem with MADA, they will want to look for topics about MADA

    ... and do not want to sift through lengthy topics about unrelated things like DeviceNet and KCP and SPS programming and what not...

    there is a value in it that one learns more but it is just not efficient and most people don't even read any more.


    also, someone trying to offer support should not have to read 60 posts to find out what the problem is and what system is involved.


    so be a pal and help us out...

    1) read pinned topic: READ FIRST...

    2) if you have an issue with robot, post question in the correct forum section... do NOT contact me directly

    3) read 1 and 2

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