Collaborative

    Anyone know how much a new Fanuc collaborative robot might set us back? We bought a Sawyer (unfortunately), and today, we have a UR5 demo going on. I think the UR5 is probably a lot closer to what we were looking for, but I'm not sure they can come close to matching our yellow robots, collaborative or not... I guess you get what you pay for.

    We have had an unofficial estimate of 90.000+ euro from a Fanuc intergrator.
    This is for the 35 KG version.


    We tried the baxter and the universal robots too, and we did not like them.


    So we ended up with a second hand robot at a price of 11.000 euro.
    It is not collaborating, so he has to do it's job without our help.

    CR 7L is about 35-40, ~3 weeks.


    Was thinking of going with a Sawyer, but could never find one running in the field. What problems are you having with the Sawyer?

    Quote from mash21


    CR 7L is about 35-40, ~3 weeks.


    Was thinking of going with a Sawyer, but could never find one running in the field. What problems are you having with the Sawyer?


    That is 35000 - 40000 dollars ?


    Our problem with the sawyer (and baxter) was that they are slow and the stability and repeatebility are very poor
    Programming is a peace of cake though.

    The Sawyer/Baxter robots are really intended for use in processes with much "looser" requirements than most industrial applications, where small size, no need for guarding, low price, and easy programming is higher priority than precision and payload. These robots achieve collaboration-grade safety by using "soft" actuators, with lots of mechanical compliance. The more "industrial-grade' collaborative robots, like the Fanuc, or the KUKA iiWA, achieve this safety by using internal power limiting and closed-loop feedback, which provides much more industrial-grade payload and precision, but is much more expensive.

    Quote from kluk-kluk

    Do you happen to know the price you paid for them ?


    And what do you think of them, are they worth the money ?


    I am a programer at a Fanuc Authorised Integrator.


    on your first Question price... I don't deal with price/costs I am a programer


    on your secound question. There is a lot more programming/setup than a standard robot. And this is what my job happens to be so. Anything that keeps me working is a good thing. As an End user, as long as your Integrator or programer dose a good job you shoud be happy with it. assuming the robot speeds and cycle times fit your needs.

    We have one CR7iA7L in production for three months and second is on the way (I expect arrival at 21/9). I also had a chance to play with CR35 for two weeks or so.


    Price for us is about 30% higher when we take CR7iA7L instead of LRM200iD7L.


    I don't think there is significantly more programming, but definitelly harder to setup. It's absolutelly necessary to have perfect payload setup (payload ident isn't supported!).


    I faced few things related to CR7:


    1) Axis limits - especially J2/J3 has more strict limit due to safety restrictions (squeze hazard)
    2) Speed - movement is really slow and it's good to make smooth movements to avoid errors in external force detection
    3) Paload changes - it's necessary to setup payload areas (where colaborative function is disabled) and after payload change robot has to wait for a while to recalibration of force sensor (hundreds of miliseconds)
    4) Robot has to stop for a while (again hundreds of miliseconds) for self recalibration of force sensor after some time (maximally 90sec between calibration). There has to be very low external force applied during calibration
    5) External force to issue stop of robot can be adjust, but be carefull. Standard limit is 70N, you can make it even 5N, BUT 30N is automatically reserved by Fanuc for payload setup error. So If you setup external force stop to 35N then you have only 5N for yourself and this 5N force will stop robot.


    And of course risk assesment is must!


    If you have any question feel free to ask.


    Tomas

    The best term I can think of to describe Sawyer... 'DRUNK.'


    Sloppy, slow, and loud. I think my kids would love to have one, but this thing has no business being in our factory. That's not to say Sawyer doesn't have a place. I'm sure it could be useful somewhere. Just not here. I was impressed with the UR5. Much closer to what I expect from an 'industrial' robot. The motion seemed a little choppy, but I think that was more of a product of limited time. That said, the thing accelerates and decelerates FAST. It seemed like every move this guy programmed had a fine termination point, which had to be the cause of the choppy motion.


    Anyway, we had them come in and set up a UR5 to do secondary operations in a cell that we've used the Sawyer in previously. After 3 hours of setup and teaching, the UR5 had Sawyer beat by more than 100 parts per hour (350 to 450), which is pretty dang significant. And their price point is rather attractive, too. Sounds like we can get a new UR5, sans the servo gripper, around the same price as the drunken sailor, I mean Sawyer.


    Oh, and the other kick in the pants? The outfit that sold us the Sawyer back in December of 2016 called today to tell us that they no longer rep Rethink, and that if we were still considering a UR5, they'd love the opportunity to quote one for us. Yeah, right! Or, just in case we don't hate the Sawyer, he has 2 very lightly used demos for sale as well. I'm not sure he even realizes he's lost us as a customer yet....

    My experience with a UR10 was not that good.
    This robot could do basic job, but nothing to do with a real industrial robot (robustness, etc...)
    The lifetime of those kind of robot are certainly a lot shorter than a Fanuc, Kuka, etc... (Fanuc is based on LRMate series).


    Also, the ''Collaborative'' feature are not very hot and precise.


    It is also quite expensive relative to a CR7 (with more features) for exemple (but the CR7-L work envelop is a little bit shorter than UR10).


    The CR7 speed is more limited that UR10 (collaborative risk assessment must consider robot weight in motion and Fanuc is heavier than UR), but the functionnality, repeatability is there !

    If it starts well the first time, you have not checked all !

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