1. Home
    1. Dashboard
    2. Search
  2. Forum
    1. Unresolved Threads
    2. Members
      1. Recent Activities
      2. Users Online
      3. Team Members
      4. Search Members
      5. Trophys
  3. Articles
  4. Blog
  5. Videos
  6. Jobs
  7. Shop
    1. Orders
  • Login or register
  • Search
This Thread
  • Everywhere
  • This Thread
  • This Forum
  • Articles
  • Pages
  • Forum
  • Blog Articles
  • Products
  • More Options
  1. Robotforum - Support and discussion community for industrial robots and cobots
  2. Forum
  3. Industrial Robot Support and Discussion Center
  4. KUKA Robot Forum
Your browser does not support videos RoboDK Software for simulation and programming
Visit our Mainsponsor
IRBCAM
Robotics Channel
Robotics Training
Advertise in robotics
Sponsored Ads

TCP shaking during oscillating motion

  • lomaxe
  • October 8, 2016 at 10:54 AM
  • Thread is Resolved
  • lomaxe
    Reactions Received
    1
    Trophies
    3
    Posts
    95
    • October 8, 2016 at 10:54 AM
    • #1

    Hi everybody.
    I need help to solve a problem.
    Maybe somebody have faced a situation, when during whelding with oscillation TCP of the robot is shaking. This problem is clearly visible on the videos below:

    https://youtu.be/9Qz-MoKqlYY

    https://youtu.be/QouslniUa9g

    This problem can be partially bypass if to change torch angle relative the workpiece.

    https://youtu.be/VmKfF7fBFm4

    https://youtu.be/R6K4krJPeaU

    But in general, the problem remains ???

  • Online
    panic mode
    Reactions Received
    1,281
    Trophies
    11
    Posts
    13,091
    • October 8, 2016 at 4:37 PM
    • #2

    what is the robot model? did you enter correct load information (mass, CG and inertia) for tool?

    1) read pinned topic: READ FIRST...

    2) if you have an issue with robot, post question in the correct forum section... do NOT contact me directly

    3) read 1 and 2

    Edited once, last by panic mode (October 8, 2016 at 5:09 PM).

  • lomaxe
    Reactions Received
    1
    Trophies
    3
    Posts
    95
    • October 8, 2016 at 5:42 PM
    • #3

    Hi, panic mode :icon_smile:
    The robot model is KL 60L30-3, KRC4 extended - 8.3.20
    The data (mass, CG and interia) was calculated automatically and set by LoadDataDetermination. The first and teach offset mastering was made with EMD.

    Edited once, last by lomaxe (October 8, 2016 at 7:20 PM).

  • kr16_2
    Reactions Received
    3
    Trophies
    4
    Posts
    378
    • October 8, 2016 at 8:00 PM
    • #4

    Load information is probably wrong (mass, CG and inertia)
    This is low payload robot and tool does not look too heavy (heavier the tool and closer to robot maximum payload - better the LDD results)
    Therefore LLD information provided by robot are far from actual values.

    Mass is the easiest as you can remove the tool and put it on a scale.
    Not sure how to calculate correct CG but mechanical engineer probably can do this correctly.

  • Online
    panic mode
    Reactions Received
    1,281
    Trophies
    11
    Posts
    13,091
    • October 8, 2016 at 8:24 PM
    • #5

    mt thoughts exactly...

    1) read pinned topic: READ FIRST...

    2) if you have an issue with robot, post question in the correct forum section... do NOT contact me directly

    3) read 1 and 2

  • lomaxe
    Reactions Received
    1
    Trophies
    3
    Posts
    95
    • October 8, 2016 at 9:50 PM
    • #6

    So, I think, that the easiest way to check wheather the reason of shaking is wrong payload data is to make oscillation without load on the flange of the robot. If the flange of the robot without a torch will shake during oscillation again, wrong payload data is not the reason of the shaking... I'm right?

  • RobotFrenchman
    Trophies
    3
    Posts
    20
    • October 8, 2016 at 10:51 PM
    • #7

    I have faced a similar situation when working with a robot used for high precision vision measurements. In reality, the vibrations come from a combination of robot performance, accel/deccel/gear jerk/vel setpoints, and path/motion data:

    1) Robot performance. I know I am stating the obvious but in general, robots cannot perform (in terms of speed, repeatability, precision, strength, etc) at the same level as gantry or more conventional CNC machines (especially in terms path following and motion). I am am only stating this because at some point, we had to accept that a certain amount of the vibrations we were seeing were coming from "normal" robot performance.
    2) Motion setpoints. To begin, spline motion is the best motion to use as the KRC4 itself will plan the path out ahead of time in order to achieve optimal motion (optimal being a combination of speed, smoothness, etc). If you are using the BAS function (BAS (#INITMOV,0)) to initiate/set your motion parameters then the parameters in the Config.dat file are the setpoints your motion will use. Changing the CP-Movement setpoints such as GEAR_JERK, VEL_CP, ACC_CP, and ACC_ORI can have a significant impact on the motion. Try reducing some of these parameters (especially gear jerk and acc_cp) and see if that helps.
    3) Path/motion data. I'm not sure how you are obtaining your path data or NC points (from Catia or other software) but sometimes, smoothing the path data or adding more points could help your motion. This mostly comes into play when there is orientation changes of the endeffector from one point to the other. This does not seem to be the case for you (judging from the video); however, it could be possible that there are slight, unwanted motion between points (such as a drop of 0.1-2mm) between NC points that are close together. This would cause the robot to drop rapidly and could cause some of the vibrations you are seeing.

    Again, I wish I had a more clear cut answer but experimenting a little with each option could help you achieve what you need.

    Best regards!

  • vvelikov
    Reactions Received
    6
    Trophies
    4
    Posts
    484
    • October 9, 2016 at 11:43 AM
    • #8

    Can you post the .src file?
    As i agree that the load can cause that, especially with these short moves, the reason can be also the $APO.CDIS value and the acceleration/deceleration values

  • lomaxe
    Reactions Received
    1
    Trophies
    3
    Posts
    95
    • October 9, 2016 at 4:50 PM
    • #9

    Hi, vvelikov.
    Do you mean to post the .src file of the welding program?
    And thanks for the answer.

    Files

    weld.src 4.35 kB – 37 Downloads weld.dat 11.96 kB – 15 Downloads
  • wes_mcgee
    Reactions Received
    1
    Trophies
    4
    Posts
    271
    • October 10, 2016 at 12:07 AM
    • #10

    we have observed the same issue, on tightly curved paths at velocities of .05 - .1 TBH what you are seeing is not "that bad". I have seen it shake much worse... usually if you loosen the approximation distance values it will smooth out. But I have also noticed this seems to happen in certain "areas" of the work envelope. Of course if you are reaching a long way that makes it worse, but not always... and you aren't reaching that far. Also FWIW, I use the LDD software, and have a tool about 50% of max payload. Doesn't seem to affect things like this, though it certainly affects the robots ability to "maintain" accuracy as it reaches farther out. I tend to lean towards the "its not a CNC machine" explanation. You are weaving the TCP pretty quick. Also, how smooth is the path? That has a huge effect. If possible, use splines, they can definitely be smoother at higher speeds. Unfortunately, I can rarely use them, as you can't really go over 800-1000 positions in a block. If I had to bet on the way to fix it, check your $APO.CDIS....

  • lomaxe
    Reactions Received
    1
    Trophies
    3
    Posts
    95
    • October 11, 2016 at 1:57 PM
    • #11

    Hi.
    Thank u very much for trying to help.
    I'm just working on the problem taking into account all your advices. I'll post here about any results.

  • lomaxe
    Reactions Received
    1
    Trophies
    3
    Posts
    95
    • October 11, 2016 at 9:00 PM
    • #12

    Today I removed the torch from the flange of the robot, created a new tool with the same parameters as the real tool but with the mass=0 and other parameters=0 and make a program with oscillation by that "virtual" tool. The result was the same - TCP shaking. So, as I can understand, incorrect mass and other parameters are not the reason of the problem.

  • Fubini
    Reactions Received
    278
    Trophies
    9
    Posts
    1,893
    • October 12, 2016 at 6:14 AM
    • #13
    Quote

    So, as I can understand, incorrect mass and other parameters are not the reason of the problem.

    If you also checked additional loads.

    Fubini

  • lomaxe
    Reactions Received
    1
    Trophies
    3
    Posts
    95
    • October 12, 2016 at 2:52 PM
    • #14
    Quote from Fubini

    If you also checked additional loads.

    Fubini

    No additional load. The robot works with tool exchange system.

  • Fubini
    Reactions Received
    278
    Trophies
    9
    Posts
    1,893
    • October 12, 2016 at 3:46 PM
    • #15

    And you programmed additional load to zero, because Default would be maximal addition load for A3 and only Zero for A1 and A2?

    Fubini

  • lomaxe
    Reactions Received
    1
    Trophies
    3
    Posts
    95
    • October 12, 2016 at 6:44 PM
    • #16
    Quote from Fubini


    And you programmed additional load to zero, because Default would be maximal addition load for A3 and only Zero for A1 and A2?

    Fubini

    Yes, additional load for A3 is zero.

  • lomaxe
    Reactions Received
    1
    Trophies
    3
    Posts
    95
    • October 15, 2016 at 8:10 PM
    • #17

    Hi, guys...
    The problem is solved.
    I'll write later about it, because I'm very busy now.

  • lomaxe
    Reactions Received
    1
    Trophies
    3
    Posts
    95
    • October 17, 2016 at 8:26 PM
    • #18

    The problem was solved by upgrading ArcTech Package.
    After upgrading it was available to use spline blocks as arc program operators. Shaking during oscilation disappeared.

    Images

    • arcsline_1.jpg
      • 137.32 kB
      • 600 × 800
      • 37
    • arcslpline_2.png
      • 48.31 kB
      • 600 × 800
      • 28

    Files

    arcsline_1.jpg_thumb 18.54 kB – 107 Downloads arcslpline_2.png_thumb 13.97 kB – 105 Downloads

Advertising from our partners

IRBCAM
Robotics Channel
Robotics Training
Advertise in robotics
Advertise in Robotics
Advertise in Robotics

Job Postings

  • Anyware Robotics is hiring!

    yzhou377 February 23, 2025 at 4:54 AM
  • How to see your Job Posting (search or recruit) here in Robot-Forum.com

    Werner Hampel November 18, 2021 at 3:44 PM
Your browser does not support videos RoboDK Software for simulation and programming

Tag Cloud

  • abb
  • Backup
  • calibration
  • Communication
  • CRX
  • DCS
  • dx100
  • dx200
  • error
  • Ethernet
  • Ethernet IP
  • external axis
  • Fanuc
  • help
  • hmi
  • I/O
  • irc5
  • IRVIsion
  • karel
  • kawasaki
  • KRC2
  • KRC4
  • KRC 4
  • KRL
  • KUKA
  • motoman
  • Offset
  • PLC
  • PROFINET
  • Program
  • Programming
  • RAPID
  • robodk
  • roboguide
  • robot
  • robotstudio
  • RSI
  • safety
  • Siemens
  • simulation
  • SPEED
  • staubli
  • tcp
  • TCP/IP
  • teach pendant
  • vision
  • Welding
  • workvisual
  • yaskawa
  • YRC1000

Thread Tag Cloud

  • abb
  • Backup
  • calibration
  • Communication
  • CRX
  • DCS
  • dx100
  • dx200
  • error
  • Ethernet
  • Ethernet IP
  • external axis
  • Fanuc
  • help
  • hmi
  • I/O
  • irc5
  • IRVIsion
  • karel
  • kawasaki
  • KRC2
  • KRC4
  • KRC 4
  • KRL
  • KUKA
  • motoman
  • Offset
  • PLC
  • PROFINET
  • Program
  • Programming
  • RAPID
  • robodk
  • roboguide
  • robot
  • robotstudio
  • RSI
  • safety
  • Siemens
  • simulation
  • SPEED
  • staubli
  • tcp
  • TCP/IP
  • teach pendant
  • vision
  • Welding
  • workvisual
  • yaskawa
  • YRC1000
  1. Privacy Policy
  2. Legal Notice
Powered by WoltLab Suite™
As a registered Member:
* You will see no Google advertising
* You can translate posts into your local language
* You can ask questions or help the community with your knowledge
* You can thank the authors for their help
* You can receive notifications of replies or new topics on request
* We do not sell your data - we promise

JOIN OUR GREAT ROBOTICS COMMUNITY.
Don’t have an account yet? Register yourself now and be a part of our community!
Register Yourself Lost Password
Robotforum - Support and discussion community for industrial robots and cobots in the WSC-Connect App on Google Play
Robotforum - Support and discussion community for industrial robots and cobots in the WSC-Connect App on the App Store
Download