Author Topic: Integration of Colombo Spindles  (Read 946 times)

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Offline Jtube002

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Re: Integration of Colombo Spindles
« Reply #15 on: May 22, 2018, 03:36:12 AM »
Hi Panic, thank you for the response!

of course....

did you see wiring of speed monitor for example? how does that compare to circuit in manual?
do you know specs for all circuits (sensors etc)?
and i don't see line filter, safety etc.

For the speed monitoring I wanted to control it through the controller/program so I called Delta (the company who makes my VFD) and they told me that the particular VFD model I own (MS300) was not EtherCAT compatible but it is compatible with devicenet and profibus; but to be completely honest, I am willing to set the speed manually to begin with since I am a little in over my head with just getting the spindle working that I do not mind manually setting the speed before hand and then eventually create the workflow for it to work through the controller/program. I just want the spindle to work correctly at this point. 

As far as the circuit is concern, the spindle manual does not come with any circuit diagrams for connecting anything. It is was fabricated in Italy so it is poorly translated to English and just outlines what the wires are for and what sequence the sensors have to be in order for it to change tools. (I can attach the manual if it is best for everyone to see).

I am hoping the new diagram that Leon sent solves the most of my problems with where to connect my sensor inputs and you have mentioned that a DIN terminal is probably my best bet for 24v and 0v, which I agree with. The only part I need to study a bit more is the sensor 1 diagram. Is the inputs for sensors correct in the diagram assuming my power for 24v and 0v are coming from the DIN terminal?

I do not know what a line filter is and the overall safety for my workcell is another bridge I have to cross when I get there but I hope it wont be as tedious as this. I have worked with the x11 connector before to override it so I can get my robot to work. I am just waiting for my light screen and e stops to get in so I can install those.

if you say so... sounds like you read and understood datasheets and applicable safety standards...

It is actually a huge compliment that you think that, I have been having to teach myself many things that are completely different than my background in architecture. Although, it might seem like I know more than what I do because I have just researched specifics for a certain problem but I struggle to form a wholistic view of things with 100% confidence and am always questioning myself to see if I did everything right because I really am completely new to this. Everything I have learned has almost been self taught and very difficult to get to this point since I have no formal training. This forum, like I mentioned before has really been a life line to myself and the University because of all that I learned and been helped.

and the comment was based on what values exactly? current rating? what did you tell them?

When I called them I told the that I had an EK1100 with a EL1809 and EL2809 attached to it and told them what pins had power on the EK1100. I asked them if I could add the EL9188 and EL 9189 by just putting them on the rack and sliding them into place and they said yes but I had to supply powers to some pins (I have them written in my office, I am at home now but I believe it was pins 2, 3, and 5) and that it should power the new modules. But from what you are saying this takes a toll on the power being supplied and I do not think they take that into account. That is why the DIN terminal sounds like a way better option, which I assume I can supply the 24v and 0v that is currently on my EK1100 and put it into the DIN terminal and run a wire from my DIN back into the EK1100 and then hook up the rest of my 24v and 0v contacts into the DIN terminal.

Thank you very much,
Jtube002

Offline panic mode

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Re: Integration of Colombo Spindles
« Reply #16 on: May 22, 2018, 05:42:07 AM »

For the speed monitoring I wanted to control it through the controller/program so I called Delta (the company who makes my VFD) and they told me that the particular VFD model I own (MS300) was not EtherCAT compatible but it is compatible with devicenet and profibus; but to be completely honest, I am willing to set the speed manually to begin with since I am a little in over my head with just getting the spindle working...

very well... but to be frank, i doubt people here are familiar with specifics of anything non-Kuka (and many things Kuka). this means if you want help, you shouold post links to relevant documentation. that would make it easy for those who may be able to chime in to give more specific comments. those could be VERY different from generic responses...



As far as the circuit is concern, the spindle manual does not come with any circuit diagrams for connecting anything. It is was fabricated in Italy so it is poorly translated to English and just outlines what the wires are for and what sequence the sensors have to be in order for it to change tools. (I can attach the manual if it is best for everyone to see).

preventing access to information is not letting others to help. if you have a manual (even if it is in Italian or Klingon or whatever), it is still much better to share link to it than to have good samaritans guess and walk away... I just googled CAF15 and found nice image on eBay showing side of the unit with connection diagram right on the product. this is something you should have done and share it in the first post.



I am hoping the new diagram that Leon sent solves the most of my problems with where to connect my sensor inputs and you have mentioned that a DIN terminal is probably my best bet for 24v and 0v, which I agree with. The only part I need to study a bit more is the sensor 1 diagram. Is the inputs for sensors correct in the diagram assuming my power for 24v and 0v are coming from the DIN terminal?

that is not the only part. i would say you did not start to scratch the surface yet. and what is with hope that something may work out? wouldn't you prefer to know for sure? $10 multimeter can measure voltage and current. sensors generally draw little current. actuators draw more. knowing exact current needs is essential when making any circuit. forum members may have the best intentions to help but without knowing details, everything is shot in the dark...



I do not know what a line filter is and the overall safety for my workcell is another bridge I have to cross when I get there but I hope it wont be as tedious as this. I have worked with the x11 connector before to override it so I can get my robot to work. I am just waiting for my light screen and e stops to get in so I can install those.

safety comes first - it is not an aftertaught. and it's a more complicated than just wiring X11. this is forum for industrial robots and products you have are industrial grade. they need to be integrated in accordance with local industrial safety standards. most countries are using something that is related to ISO harmonized standard 10218. one requirement in my region is that tripping robot safety (EStop, user guarding etc) must stop not just robot arm but tooling as well. sending control signal (not a safety rated signal) may not be enough. same is with tool change... milling robots i worked with all had dedicated safety PLC to manage things like this. you dont want user program to be your only protection. what if robot suddenly decides to move fast and during move tool change is activated? you can have 5kg collet fly out over the guarding and kill someone. and if tool was also spinning fast, it could mow down several people. when i wark with students i encurage them to blow things up - when systems are low energy (think breadboard experiment). but this is real... so before you build it, ask yourself how much jail time is appropriate for loosing limb or life.

Line filter is placed between disconnect and VFD. it is used mainly to reduce effects VFD polution on power grid. milling robots i saw have filters both before and after VFD.



It is actually a huge compliment that you think that, I have been having to teach myself many things that are completely different than my background in architecture. Although, it might seem like I know more than what I do because I have just researched specifics for a certain problem but I struggle to form a wholistic view of things with 100% confidence and am always questioning myself to see if I did everything right because I really am completely new to this. Everything I have learned has almost been self taught and very difficult to get to this point since I have no formal training. This forum, like I mentioned before has really been a life line to myself and the University because of all that I learned and been helped.

engineering jobs are all about facts and numbers. i would be really impressed if your team considered (calculated) even the most basic things cuch as load. :-)



When I called them I told the that I had an EK1100 with a EL1809 and EL2809 attached to it and told them what pins had power on the EK1100. I asked them if I could add the EL9188 and EL 9189 by just putting them on the rack and sliding them into place and they said yes but I had to supply powers to some pins (I have them written in my office, I am at home now but I believe it was pins 2, 3, and 5) and that it should power the new modules. But from what you are saying this takes a toll on the power being supplied and I do not think they take that into account. That is why the DIN terminal sounds like a way better option, which I assume I can supply the 24v and 0v that is currently on my EK1100 and put it into the DIN terminal and run a wire from my DIN back into the EK1100 and then hook up the rest of my 24v and 0v contacts into the DIN terminal.

hmmm, sounds like you will do anything to avoid fact checking. those IO moules are high density, they have a LOT of points but power is limited.
consider outputs... EL2809 has 16 of them and each is capable of providing output current of up to 500mA or 0.5A.
16x0.5A=8A. but if total current would reach that level module would melt. EK1100 power terminals are rated for up to 10A but this is rather exterme value. i doubt it can handle that except in brief pulses. just look at the size of the contacts (little blades are used to transmit power to other modules) and compare that with AC plug contacts which are only rated for 15A (13A really). blade contacts in IO slices are significantly smaller...


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