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 No more copyrighted Fanuc stuff allowed on the forum

veryhot_post_sticky Author Topic:  No more copyrighted Fanuc stuff allowed on the forum  (Read 75117 times)

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May 22, 2010, 10:50:50 AM
Reply #25
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RAS-Skordos GR


hahaha

Finally, something good came out from this story! If they don't directly support customers with used robots, this means more business for us freelancers that still have the right contacts!  ;-)

Today at 06:26:44 PM
Reply #26

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July 20, 2010, 12:28:01 PM
Reply #26

Hrafn

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July 20, 2010, 07:58:21 PM
Reply #27
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RAS-Skordos GR


Thx Hrafn,

sounds to me like exactly the case!  :top:

August 13, 2010, 09:30:32 PM
Reply #28

Yodafreak

Guest
According to FANUC, the robot re-license fee is to cover all of the support that you will be getting with the purchase of the robot.  If you don't re-license the robot software, then they won't even sell you spare parts (according to the FANUC hotline).  FANUC is willing to work with customers in terms of discount for multiple units re-licensed, etc. but it will be on a 'case by case' basis, for whatever that means.

As a FANUC integrator, we get a discount on the re-license fee that we are able to pass through to the end customers, but it is still not cheap.

I heard that this was FANUC's way of combatting the flood of used GM and other automotive robots that flooded the market, so that end users would be more 'likely' to purchase a new unit.  Personally, I think this was a HORRIBLE business model, as smaller businesses that can't afford new robots will purchase a used robot, no matter what make.  This just prices FANUC out of the used robot market.  The next time the used robot customer wants to buy another unit new, they will have expertise in the make that they purchased, and will 90% of the time purchase the same robot make because they are familiar with it.  They have basically, amongst other business decisions such as the restrictive pollicy on documentation, shot themselves in the foot.

Ryan

August 28, 2010, 08:09:06 PM
Reply #29
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xaryd


knowledge should be free of limitations and full of expectations!

September 09, 2010, 09:38:28 PM
Reply #30

Robopro

Guest
If you do have a copy of E-docs , there is a way you can open it .
that you can see all of the pdf documents and copy them indivually ..

oops sorry but there in pdf on the disk
just take adobe acrobat and put together a master manual that has it all .

adobe will automatically find all pdf's if you have it search the disk .
then you can have it make one big pdf book with everything ..

you just have to have the e-docs
its actually better to view then there webpage approach.

I do it to all of mine .

September 20, 2010, 05:30:50 PM
Reply #31

rptattoos

Guest
I would have to say, I am not surprised one bit. Fanuc is one (if not) the hardest robot company to deal with. Getting any little bit of information is both time consuming, Expensive and aggravating to say the very least. Even when you do buy their so called support, it still takes days if not weeks or months to get any type of response or help. Requested and paid for manuals over a year ago and still have not received them. Called repeatedly and they say Yes They are on their way and yet they never seem to get delivered. Call a month later and low and behold they are on their way, yet they still are not delivered.

We are currently Going strictly with Motoman Robots, Which have provided great support (Without the Fee), Provided Manuals every time we call and in a timely manner. I would trade the our last 6 fanuc's in the plant for one motoman. Because the support and help through fanuc does not exist, except on paper.
Boo on Fanuc, They only seem to care about the bottom dollar in their pockets and nothing about actual support to their customers. They are in it strictly for the money they can hijack through whatever means necessary while providing little if any support at all.

Sharing information here will also soon be targeted for a fee also, once they figure out a way to do it and get away with it.
 

Today at 06:26:44 PM
Reply #32

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November 04, 2010, 02:32:19 PM
Reply #32

psionprime

Guest
It is unfortunate Fanuc has kept this stance. I've decided to post some background as I have worked closely with and have many friends at Fanuc. I know they think much the same as in wanting good service. I have worked with Fanuc since 1995. I have worked with GM MFD CRW CCRW HQ as a HQ/Tech Center lead during that time. Even in GM, arguably the world's largest company during that period and the main driver of industry "standards" for Fanuc, it was still like wrestling a bear to get support at times. I've been to and dealt with the Japanese side of things. North America is supposed to be separate, but is still controlled by Japanese structures, one of which is the sales/support models.  

Be assured the American Fanuc sales & support force are equally frustrated at having their hands tied. The recent years have had serious repercussions for those who do not toe the corporate line. Be as it may, regardless of how great their products are, it seems they cannot profitably support smaller businesses. Even larger businesses are shying from them due to service concerns. Recently I was involved in the transport of some fairly modern systems from subsidiary facilities of a large company to some of their main locations. There was a big fall out when bringing the machines back online after transport for the few that needed tech support. The point of contention being many of the systems were licensed under the name of the subsidiary even though there was documentation supporting the capital was supplied by the parent corporation Fanuc would not support the systems without a license transfer fee that ran a little under $10k US. Each. Then another fee for recreating the software installation media. And another fee for the manuals. This was for a large supplier that will not be purchasing any more Fanucs without a change in policy.

My experience is that Fanuc understands various localities can challenge their licensing practices (even where, in many cases due to the "First-Sale Doctrine" where the license is moot) but they control access to their support so... In general I've found Fanuc support will bend over backwards to support you, if you have a matching F# to your contact info in their database.

I can see where someone volunteers to give their legally purchased .pdf to someone here but this forum doesn't appear to have the means to control how that is sold so it is understandable the administrators simply banning the posts. Not much otherwise they can do. I imagine one can still send PM's and handle such things privately. Don't PM me, I won't send out any Fanuc docs as this stuff cost too much for me to risk losing permanently and once you write your own software and try to sell it only to see someone you know didn't buy it using it you will understand why people want to protect it. Now I do put my original software manuals into the public domain but that's my personal policy. Wish Fanuc's was.


Good Luck


December 09, 2010, 10:45:09 PM
Reply #33

julio_gyn

Guest
I'm very new with robots, using ABB and I'm loving to. they gave me all manuals for all models, and we bought only 1 SECOND HAND robot, we have many different machines and some have fanuc controls and is the same pain to get manuals and help... don't know if I would buy a new machine or robot from fanuc.... good make, but when things get old, they forget about you....

January 22, 2011, 01:08:30 AM
Reply #34
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bugsy69


I've played with all robots, but I do enjoy working with Fanuc's robot.  But I dread dealing with the humans there.  there are exceptions, but very few.

January 25, 2011, 01:34:37 PM
Reply #35
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flatcurve


I don't dread it, but I do know that it's hit or miss when calling the iQ hotline. There are a couple guys there who really know their stuff, and I usually try asking for them by name if I can. The rest sound like robots, and obviously hate their jobs.

June 29, 2011, 07:14:32 PM
Reply #36
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SJT


I especially like the "closed ticket" email :ignored:

September 02, 2011, 08:04:51 AM
Reply #37
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Robot FANKU


very bad news, but it is good for organization(fanuc) but for others its loss

September 04, 2011, 04:38:01 PM
Reply #38

Troy T

Guest
The Fanuc eDocs are pitiful, the worst I have seen in  22 years, their software Roboguide  is a crash-o-matic ($15,000 and no-Karel editing???? ) when used for much other than a virtual teach pendant (something Kawasaki and abb offered for free with any single robot purchase).
 Now this... No thanks Fanuc...





« Last Edit: September 08, 2011, 01:30:03 AM by Troy T »

Today at 06:26:44 PM
Reply #39

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September 15, 2011, 04:12:39 PM
Reply #39
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flatcurve


You can use roboguide to edit and compile KAREL .KL files. There is no software that can decompile a .PC binary. That's pretty standard for all forms of compiled programming though. Also, it sounds like you're getting ripped off on the license. If you're a signed integrator, you can get a universal license for $2k a year, which entitles you to all of the PRO applications (WeldPRO, DispensePRO, HandlingPRO, PickPRO, etc...), virtual controllers from v5.3 up to v7.7 (current) and constant updates. And if you buy robots often, you can usually avoid paying that license fee altogether. It has to be negotiated with the purchase of the robot though. They like to let you think that you got away with something they don't normally do, but it happens all the time.

Totally agree with you about the eDocs though. I can't stand those things. The one for iRVision is the worst. It reads like it was translated from Japanese by Google Language Tools or something.

September 17, 2011, 04:18:39 PM
Reply #40

Agamenon

Guest
Definitive, Fanuc have the worst and most expensive support, I lost the original disk set for my robots and they resend-me for $ 6500.  :uglyhammer2: Too expensive for a software that I really buy in bundle with my robots.

September 20, 2011, 04:05:41 AM
Reply #41

Troy T

Guest
Hello,
Yes, I did figure out how to compile with the roboguide, so, I guess I must take that one back! Just a case of being hugely frustrated with the lack of documentation.

The funny thing about the $15,000 is... we have about 1000 of the new r30ia's in our plant! We are a manufacture and my guess is we buy the robots dirt cheap;  fanuc has to make up the gap on the software?

 

September 20, 2011, 12:44:10 PM
Reply #42
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flatcurve


Ah, yes... FANUC charges full price to the end users for the software. If you bought and integrated the robots yourself you may have been able to negotiate that a little better. But if you purchased it through your integrator, it's unlikely that they would pass their discount on to you. I certainly wouldn't if we already received the PO. Have to keep the lights on somehow.

November 15, 2011, 01:30:08 AM
Reply #43
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amar15t


FANUC's policy I find is, unless your a large automotive or similar large manufacturing entity,  'screw' you - pay thru the nose and lump it. Their big customers get all the service and discount and the rest of us can go to hell. I have a lot of contact with various system integrators who are increasingly frustrated with FANUCs getting 'blood from a stone' mentality - only thing you can do is to lobby all who use FANUC to consider switching to other robot suppliers

November 15, 2011, 03:06:40 PM
Reply #44
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robodog


Well I can see where they are coming from by giving their bigger customers discounts and favoring them, because thats what all companies do. you have to hold on to your big customers. but I dont agree with them taking it out on the little guy. because after all, we are their customers as well.
« Last Edit: November 15, 2011, 03:08:25 PM by robodog »

November 15, 2011, 03:10:46 PM
Reply #45
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robodog


I've found that Fanuc FA (cnc controls) has alot better service than fanuc robotics. If you call FANUC FA they will usually send someone out next day to help you and bring any spare parts that they may need. Fanuc robotics,  not so much

Today at 06:26:44 PM
Reply #46

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December 05, 2011, 08:14:50 PM
Reply #46
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flatcurve



This hasn't really been my experience. I think it comes down to who your rep is over at FANUC. I think my company got lucky in that regard. We're not a large integrator in any sense of the word (JR or Ellison probably do as much business in a week as we do all year) but FANUC does a pretty good job of meeting our needs in terms of pricing and support. I sometimes worry that we're too demanding for a company that is this small, but I'm not complaining about the results. It may also be that we just know how to work the system over there.

We've only been a  FANUC integrator for the last two years, but I have to say that in those two years I've seen them personally address most of the issues that I've had with them. For such a large company to pay attention to the little guys like us is impressive.

July 21, 2012, 11:13:26 AM
Reply #47
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pocoato


I have purchased multiple Fanuc robots and have never been asked anything of the license
Since when does that happen?

July 21, 2012, 09:36:49 PM
Reply #48
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Fabian Munoz

Administrator
I think 2010 October
You dont have a problem if you buy the robots
I integrated around 60 Fanuc robots in the 2 years but I did not buy them, therefore Fanuc USA ignores my phone calls.


No bad intention or thoughts on this post, just posting facts to answer a question
somar

November 02, 2012, 10:24:49 PM
Reply #49
Offline

trunkcnc


 I wouldn´t buy a robot knowing that it´ll be hard in the future to find manuals for their robots. :wallbash:
Do what you think but think what yo re going to do...


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