Author Topic: No more copyrighted Fanuc stuff allowed on the forum  (Read 66007 times)

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yogesh

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Re: No more copyrighted Fanuc stuff allowed on the forum
« Reply #15 on: January 05, 2010, 02:24:11 PM »
Is this license fee restricted to the USA or it is applicable whereever on this globe.

jpatterson

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Re: No more copyrighted Fanuc stuff allowed on the forum
« Reply #16 on: January 13, 2010, 02:03:54 PM »
Dear Fanuc:

I'm still trying to understand this software license issue .. can someone from your company please explain to the robot forum audience just what your stance is. Recently I bought a used robot at an auction and I have a few questions.

A. How am I doing something illegal if I use this robot.
B. Did the company that owned this robot before me do something illegal for selling it.
C. At what point did I become obligated to buy your license ... your so called license agreement was with the one who bought the robot from you ... how did it pass onto me and to all future people who might buy this same robot.
D. If I do not choose to buy your license for $10,000 will you take action against me and if not will you support me if I need to buy a part or need help.
E. What is the difference between the software that controls a robot and the software that controls other equipment or machines that are commonly sold on the used market.

We all know Fanuc reads these posts ... and I think Fanuc needs to answer these basic questions and be up front with the robot industry.

John Patterson
MidWest Fabricators

Harley

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Re: No more copyrighted Fanuc stuff allowed on the forum
« Reply #17 on: February 25, 2010, 09:22:53 PM »
Fanuc is losing business over this and their service. I had my robot service provider contact Fanuc for grease and batteries. They said that it would ship Friday evening for a Monday am delivery. 5 days (and many phone calls later) the items finally arrived. Hard to believe seeing I am not even 3 hours from their facility in Michigan! When we talked to them, they kept saying that they would have to check on it. We had planned on purchasing additional robots in the near future, but due to these and other issues, I doubt they will be Fanuc.

Offline RAS-Skordos GR

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Re: No more copyrighted Fanuc stuff allowed on the forum
« Reply #18 on: April 09, 2010, 09:10:54 AM »
While not being the leading brand in the market, FANUC is trying to play hard games and worsen the already bad service.........hmmm....not logical......maybe we are missing a bigger picture here.

Once, I asked for a 5-robot offer and they ignored me, while other brands were calling back every second day.

Maybe, they want to focus to big customers (ie. car-industries) and leave the smaller ones to the integrators.

Fairwell FANUC....

Offline PMC

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Re: No more copyrighted Fanuc stuff allowed on the forum
« Reply #19 on: April 15, 2010, 08:04:39 PM »
CRC was hacked into a few years ago and this changed everything related to document availability.  FANUC isn't going anywhere and isn't losing business.  There isn't another robot mfg that comes close to FANUC.  Quit your complaining.

Offline tony gast

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Re: No more copyrighted Fanuc stuff allowed on the forum
« Reply #20 on: April 16, 2010, 12:33:33 PM »
I don't dislike the funuc robot.....it is a good machine....my 3nd favorite(just because of my experience).....BUT
How does this change giving manuals to people that would purchase a 2nd hand machine?......and the sting of re license has caused some potential lost (just as stated in this forum)...and I have heard such out in the field..these are things that other companies offer ........ the docs and just ask to let them know you have a 2nd hand machine.....this gets you in the door to court a new customer....or do you not need any new customers?....
Oh, well

Offline simspec

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Re: No more copyrighted Fanuc stuff allowed on the forum
« Reply #21 on: April 16, 2010, 06:29:23 PM »
Whats your job at fanuc?

paddleboy17

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Re: No more copyrighted Fanuc stuff allowed on the forum
« Reply #22 on: April 19, 2010, 06:16:44 PM »
I would think that relicensing should be its own thread, separate from documentation issues.

Lets talk licensing first.  Once upon a time, there was a company named DEC (Digital Equipment Corporation).  They made mini-computers, that technology that came after mainframes and before UNIX work stations and personal computers.  All of the issues about licensing got worked out during the DEC era.  Licenses used to be vague, so you could buy a really old machine just to get its license, and then transfer that license to a new hot box.  So if you read the fine print on any modern license, it typically says that license is not transferable, and that goes for PC with a Windows OS as well.  It may not be enforced, but licenses tend not be tranferable.  A copy of FANUC's license ships with every new robot, so FANUC does inform users of its policy.  Your sources for used robots should know this too, and factor relicensing into the used robot's price.

Each FANUC robot sold afte the mid 90's came with a CD of all associated manuals.  I believe that robots sold prior to then came with a paper manual.  Again your sources for used robots know this too.  Keeping the CD with the controller is a hassle, and a used robot with no documentation should be worth less than a used robot with documentation.


Robots are not simple ROM based systems like toaster ovens.  FANUC is pretty good about being able to get you a software upgrade, although they will charge you for it.  Similarly, FANUC can usually get you documentation for any robot ever sold, but you will have to buy it.

I cannot comment on what is a fair price for a software upgrade/relicense or what a fair price is for robot docuentation.

Offline Ydna

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Re: No more copyrighted Fanuc stuff allowed on the forum
« Reply #23 on: April 24, 2010, 04:41:28 PM »
Fanuc has always charged for re-licensing (especially re-loading licenses after a controller CPU was wiped/etc). The problem is that the license used to cost $1,500 not mere months ago [at the time of this posting] where it now costs in excess of $10,000. Of course the price has dropped a bit since the inception of this new policy, likely due to the outcry.

As far as I'm concerned it means when purchasing a secondhand robot you must verify that it does indeed have the controller software installed, or be prepared to pay for the reload. The real bad thing is that I've seen a few cases where the CPU board was knocked loose from its rack during transit, loosing the batteyr backup connection in the process...so an otherwise good condition sale then became something totally different.

RZ_RoboMan

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Re: No more copyrighted Fanuc stuff allowed on the forum
« Reply #24 on: May 21, 2010, 01:26:29 PM »
On other caveat with license issues. 

FANUC will no longer support users that call in if they can not validate they have a proper license.


Offline RAS-Skordos GR

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Re: No more copyrighted Fanuc stuff allowed on the forum
« Reply #25 on: May 22, 2010, 10:50:50 AM »
hahaha

Finally, something good came out from this story! If they don't directly support customers with used robots, this means more business for us freelancers that still have the right contacts!  ;-)

Hrafn

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Re: No more copyrighted Fanuc stuff allowed on the forum
« Reply #26 on: July 20, 2010, 12:28:01 PM »
We bought a used Fanuc robot at an auction because we are a small company just trying to survive in this crazy economy and have been told by Fanuc that we must buy a $10,000 license for their software. Has anyone else had to do this.
There should be some kind of consumer protection against a manufacturer taking advantage of a small company just because their business is slow and they want to stop people from buying used robots. It would be like Henry Ford trying to stop people from buying used cars. Thinking HaHa now they have to buy our new cars.
I think auction houses should have to warn people about this license fee from Fanuc.

Not sure if this helps but I think they are on thin ice..http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/First-sale_doctrine

Offline RAS-Skordos GR

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Re: No more copyrighted Fanuc stuff allowed on the forum
« Reply #27 on: July 20, 2010, 07:58:21 PM »
Thx Hrafn,

sounds to me like exactly the case!  :top:

Yodafreak

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Re: No more copyrighted Fanuc stuff allowed on the forum
« Reply #28 on: August 13, 2010, 09:30:32 PM »
According to FANUC, the robot re-license fee is to cover all of the support that you will be getting with the purchase of the robot.  If you don't re-license the robot software, then they won't even sell you spare parts (according to the FANUC hotline).  FANUC is willing to work with customers in terms of discount for multiple units re-licensed, etc. but it will be on a 'case by case' basis, for whatever that means.

As a FANUC integrator, we get a discount on the re-license fee that we are able to pass through to the end customers, but it is still not cheap.

I heard that this was FANUC's way of combatting the flood of used GM and other automotive robots that flooded the market, so that end users would be more 'likely' to purchase a new unit.  Personally, I think this was a HORRIBLE business model, as smaller businesses that can't afford new robots will purchase a used robot, no matter what make.  This just prices FANUC out of the used robot market.  The next time the used robot customer wants to buy another unit new, they will have expertise in the make that they purchased, and will 90% of the time purchase the same robot make because they are familiar with it.  They have basically, amongst other business decisions such as the restrictive pollicy on documentation, shot themselves in the foot.

Ryan

Offline xaryd

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Re: No more copyrighted Fanuc stuff allowed on the forum
« Reply #29 on: August 28, 2010, 08:09:06 PM »
knowledge should be free of limitations and full of expectations!