Why is Fanuc raising the cost of used robots?

[Skooter]

I'm perplexed.  We just received new pricing for re-licensing Fanuc robot software from Fanuc Robotics America.  The letter stated "Our prices are changing considerably in an effort to align with industry standards."  I've attached the PDF.

In summary, the new prices are as follows:
Software license transfer: $7,500 USD
Software license transfer with copy of software loaded for original customer: $8,300 USD
Software license transfer with upgrade or tool change: $10,000 USD

All this is effective Nov. 1, 2009.  Previously we were paying a hefty $2000 USD for a re-license.  It appears to me that they do not want anyone buying used robots from anyone but themselves.  Can anyone tell me if there is any other robot manufacturers doing this?  What industry standards are they comparing themselves with?  Are other Fanuc locations in the world doing the same thing?

Skooter

[Jim Tyrer]

Fanuc have got this forum so spooked with their copyright watchdogs that I was about to delete your attachment before I checked it for copyright notices.

I used to be a big Fanuc fan, they did sell what I (in my humble and inexperienced opinion) considered to be the best robot in North America. Since the crunch they appear to have got rid of everyone with any common sense and are now bent on screwing up what is left of their business. The perception that Fanuc have questionable business practices has been out there for some years now. Perhaps they are now justifying the critics?

[Robo Guru]

Motoman has no such thing or policies.  I don't understand what they mean by "Industry Standards"  That sounds like a load of crap.... just an excuse to make more money.

[dannyboysd89]

They have done the same with machine tools as well. On 1998 machines you could go in and open/unlock any parameter you wanted. You buy anew  machine now, they have to come in and turn on the paramaters that you ordered with the machine, when you start up the machine and YOU pay for them to come out. Then if you need something else turned on at a later date, they have to come in at your expense again.

Dan

[Robo Guru]

I know times are tough for everyone but they are sounding like sketchy used car salesmen

[Mtech]

Is there a spot on this forum for motoman robots? I wouldn't mind learning more about their robots for some possible upcoming projects. After reading all this chatter maybe its time to invest somewhere else in the future.

[Robo Guru]

Motoman forum is pretty busy!  Lot's of people always posting... here is the link

http://www.robot-forum.com/robotforum/yaskawa_motoman_robot_forum-b7.0/

RoboGuru

[Mtech]

Thanks.

[Routerguy]

I have worked with Fanuc's for sometime now, and enjoy them very much, in my opinion "maybe the best in North America" at least for my application. But Fanuc's choice on how they handle business is perplexing and disappointing to say the least!!!..... Fanuc! open your eyes!!! me/us/this forum and the people that populate it are the bread and butter so to speak of you business!.... you are rapidly losing support and love for you products!

[JonnyRotten]

I've only entered the wild world of Robotics in the last year, and I've quickly latched onto Fanuc robots, because I have a computer programming background, and the interface, and programming them almost felt familiar. The language was easy, and I quickly figured out alot about them, and became the defacto "Fanuc guy" in our plant.

But this is really a poor move by Fanuc, and will pretty much end my chances of talking people here into ordering any more Fanuc robots at all.

Being from the computer side of things, I can understand about them not wanting you to transfer the license, but this is really poor form. Especially almost quadrupling how much it costs to relicense.

I've stopped supporting better companies for equally slimy reasons, I guess I can add Fanuc to that list.

[NewtoKAREL]

My hunch says it has something to do with the flood of robots that hit the market when the auto companies filed bankruptcy.

GM split off into two entities.  New GM and old GM.  Old GM has a $@&! load of old RJ3iB's (among other things) that they are selling off for whatever they can get.

So, I'm guessing some genius over in Rochester Hills decided it would be a good idea to try to make some money off of every one of these robots that is sold.  While their spare parts business will make a decent cut from robots like these, software is a gold mine considering it costs them only a few dollars and a few hours to cut some paperwork, burn a memory card, and ship it to you.

[SkyeFire]

To the best of my knowledge, KUKAs and Kawasakis have no re-licensing requirements in order to keep them running.  On the other hand, if you buy a second-hand robot, you're going to have to pay full rate for any upgrades, option packages, or service -- I don't think the warranty transfers.  But there's nothing that will "lock off" parts of the robot if you don't get a new license.

Now, a few of the higher-end option packages on the KUKAs require licenses.  KUKAVision (for Cognex cameras) requires a USB dongle, and Force-Torque requires a software key.  If you buy a second-hand robot with these installed, they'll keep working, but if something happens where you need to get a new license (the USB dongle fries, or the software license gets hashed), things are less clear.  The software license for Force-Torque links to a serial number encoded in firmware on the robot, so you might be able to convince KUKA that the license is legit.  But getting the KUKAVision dongle might well require you to buy the whole vision package new. 

Bottom line:  if you're going to buy a second-hand robot, get the serial #s and contact the manufacturer, find out what support might carry over and what might not.  Dealing with a reputable refurbisher and/or integrator is also advisable. 

[jpatterson]

I posted this on the Fanuc forum also ... I guess we're not alone. We just bought a used Fanuc robot at an auction because we are a small company just trying to survive in this crazy economy and have been told by Fanuc that we must buy a $10,000 license for their software.

There should be some kind of consumer protection against a manufacturer taking advantage of a small company just because their business is slow and they want to stop people from buying used robots. It would be like Henry Ford years ago trying to stop people from buying used cars. Thinking HaHa now they have to buy our new cars.

Fanuc should just have people pay by the hour or minute .. if they want phone support.. like other electronic type manufacturers do. They'd probably make more money and gain more new customers this way .. instead of turning customers against them.

[jpatterson]

Dear Fanuc:
I'm still trying to understand this software license issue .. can someone from your company please explain to the robot forum audience just what your stance is. Recently I bought a used robot at an auction and I have a few questions.
A. Am I doing something illegal if I use this robot.
B. Did the company that owned this robot before me do something illegal for selling it.
C. If I do not choose to buy your license for $10,000 will you take action against me and if not will you support me if I need to buy a part or need help.
D. What is the difference between the software that controls a robot and the software that controls other equipment or machines that are commonly sold on the used market.

I think Fanuc needs to answer these basic questions and be up front with the robot industry.

John Patterson
MidWest Fabricators

[robotexp]

It amaze me with that effort of Fanuc to raise there prices..strange in such economical condition.. as far as industry standard considered , the best prices offered by used robots are from ABB, try that out.